Rethink Your Life!
Finance, health, lifestyle, environment, philosophy
The Work of Art and The Art of Work
Kiko Denzer on Art



Cob: Re: Please Help, listers please read this

Sojourner sojournr at missouri.org
Thu Jul 1 13:52:45 CDT 1999


RE:  The complaint that Trina reposted the message to the list.

Well, since this list is set up to AUTOMATICALLY respond to individuals
instead of to the list, it can be hard to tell when you're getting
something privately that may have been intended for the list.  I have
this happen every single time I post - I get stuff sent privately to me
that was intended for the list all the time.  It can be tough to tell
the difference.

In any case, on to the message that WAS posted to the list:

Mary Zan Warren wrote:

> I do however, question your decision to not install plumbing
> when you do have money in the bank to do so.

Where did you come up with that idea?  From the same source that tells
you outhouses explode at the drop of a hat?

What Trina ACTUALLY said:

> it would cost a great deal of money which we do not have to
> get the plumbing situation solved.

And from that you conclude that she has money in the bank and is just be
stubborn and recalcitrant about hooking up the existing septic system? 

> I've received all kinds of mail from people who agree with me
> about the dangers of pooping on the ground for a permanent solution

LOL!  So if enough people post that they believe in Santa Claus, it
becomes "fact", and they all become right due to a common consensus of
belief?

To start with nobody said they were just relieving themselves any old
place.  In the second place, flush toilets are much more dangerous,
unhealthful, and expensive to maintain than an outhouse or sawdust
composting toilet.  In the third place, why is people poop any worse
than animal poop, if properly deposited away from water sources (of
which she has none anyway) and habitations, and properly composted?

It's not, your squeamishness aside.

> am confused by the fact that NOW you want me to forget you.
> This is confusing.

I don't know why it should be.  You said:

> I work for the child protective services here in Texas and I
> can't imagine exposing my child to conditions as unhealthy
> as that for an exptended period of time.

Clear implication being that you know what is best for children, she
doesn't, and you have the right and authority to enforce YOUR beliefs on
her and her family.

Nothing confusing about it.  I saw the same implied threat.

> I think you probably ought to do more reasearch from reliable
> sources about your choice and be open to change

Coming from somebody who thinks outhouses explode, this is pretty
laughable.

Maybe you should do ANY research.  With an open mind.  If it doesn't
hurt too much to pry it open.

> Did I mention that once my husband and 3 kids lived in a
> terrible old tin house with only a woodstove to warm us?
> WE enjoyed the lifestyle. WE had a septic tank. We noticed
> the grass grew so well over it, we planted a garden there
> on top of it, all in ignorance of course,

Yup, that's pretty ignorant.  So what?  No one proposes using raw human
waste to fertilize food crops.  Personally, I'm too squeamish to even
use the composted stuff.  But I know people who do.

A septic system doesn't compost.  It collects.  It concentrates.  It
doesn't allow for much in the way of breakdown at all, not when
improperly used as nearly everyone I have ever met who had one does. 
Improperly installed, used, and maintained, they can be a real health
hazard.

Just because you failed to educate yourself about proper septic system
maintenance and usage doesn't prove that outhouses and other
alternatives are bad.

Any waste disposal mechanism that relies on first concentrating the
material in huge amounts (septic tanks are usually around 500 gallons,
as opposed to a 5 gallon sawdust bucket or outhouse) is equally
dangerous - that's why sewage treatment plants are such a menace.

A properly maintained outhouse, by contrast, with a clean out, collects
waste in small amounts, allows it to compost, composted material may be
safely removed.  (You need a 2-holer to do it right, switching from one
to the other as the material composts on one side you use the other). 
Sawdust toilets work the same way - collect, remove for composting.

Do it this way and disease organisms don't get a chance to gather
together and breed.

Concentrated, uncomposting waste is sewage.  Collected, properly
composting waste - human OR animal - is clean, safe fertilizer.

If you're squeamish or uncertain of the efficacy of your composting
process, don't use composted human waste on food crops.  I don't myself,
but I do know people who do.  I acknowledge this squeamishness on my
part.

I strongly recommend Gene Logsdon's book, "Practical Skills", copyright
1985, published by Rodale Press, ISBN 0-87857-577-4.  This book is VERY
hard to come by, I just got my copy after having it on my want list on
Advanced Book Exchange (http://www.abebooks.com) for over 2 years, but
you can undoubtedly get a copy through interlibrary loan.

In it he thoroughly discusses how to properly build a composting privy,
and how to properly use and maintain a septic system so it allows the
waste to safely break down as opposed to turning into a sewage puddle.

If anybody's interested, I'll be happy to post the guidelines for proper
handling and composting of human waste.

> Since I know you will probably put this one on the entire cob
> list too,

Hyperbole.  You posted it yourself.

> Trina, I wish you the best of luck but in my state, the
> building code inspectors can't inspect something outside
> the city limits.

Septic issues are often a county responsibility.  In my state, if you
own enough acreage you don't have to worry about it.

> Be careful about decisions affecting your children. THey're
> only here one time around. God bless you and help you.

Maybe you don't MEAN to sound so sanctimonious, but you sure do!  There
is NO REASON on 40 acres to have to have flush toilets.  There is no
reason to have a septic system as long as you properly handle your
greywater and other waste.

Check out some of the links I posted previously about safe and proper
ways to handle these issues without having to resort to wasteful and
dangerous mechanisms like the flush toilet and septic systems.

Holly ;-D