SPAM-LOW: [Cob] Animal mixing power

[Bill&Julie]

What I was going by,,,  is from a Cob-Lister of years
back..  He Studied at University the whole cob history.
And he maintained that one farm cow would be able
to keep 4 good cobbers buisy...
And all that was needed was some kind of a turn style,
and a non-skilled person to keep the cow moving.
( nothing was said about a hard surface)

But with ALL ideas, new or old, proven and not.
The only ones that will work, are the ones that are
trid. And of those, only the ones that are given a
chance...

would history lie,, bill


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "joe" <joe at skeesick.com>
To: <coblist at deatech.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 7:38 PM
Subject: re: SPAM-LOW: [Cob] Animal mixing power



I have used animal mixed cob. The same as
historically... with stock yard mix. Cob was often simply the contents
of the stock yard. Devon clay is increadibly sticky stuff and straw is
typically thrown (and dumped as feed waste from the animals) into the
yard to provide traction and keep it from sinking into the much. That
straw is then churned into the mix along with other soils and dung.
After a season of troding the cob was ready. Mixing was accomplished
passively.

I don't have any direct knowledge of active cob mixing by animals but
it is more than plausible since grist mills, pug mills, sorgum mills
and the like were all animal powered. These mixing options would be
indirect. As for direct mixing on a concrete pad... cows can work on
hard surfaces if shoed, however that wouldn't be the most effective way
of active mixing by animals.

The issue of foot rot could be addressed by indirect mixing/milling
such as you would have with any grain milling. A trough system like is
shown here could be modified to work...

http://www.reisebilder.ch/bilder/in088-700.jpg

To clarify on the ox issue. An ox is simply a cow/bull (often
castrated) 4 years old or older, nothing more. A team of oxen will work
all day without a whip. It is true that unless you otherwise have an ox
team it isn't exactly practicle to use animal power for most people.
For others it is a particularly good solution.

In short animal power probably won't work for 95% (or more) of the
people building cob today but it has much more to do with that persons
realities and less to do with the animal itself.

J

----------------------------------------

From: Susan Evans <seasider48 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 6:29 PM
To: coblist at deatech.com
Subject: SPAM-LOW:  [Cob] Animal mixing power

Has anybody in recent times actually use cows (or horses) for mixing cob?
Did they live to tell the tale?  (LOL)

I have been getting a little giggle from the recent postings regarding
the possibility of using cows to mix cob. It's not a real effective
way. Cows are not designed to work on hard surfaces - assuming you are
planning on mixing the cob on concrete, asphalt or some other hard
surface so that the cob can be effectively scooped up. Working in the
wet mix will encourage foot rot, also.

 I rather suspect that
if animals were used in the 1500s, that they were likely oxen - who are
somewhat more multi-purpose and heavier-duty than a cow And that there
was a person involved that was using a whip periodically.

The amount of time one would have to spend training and caring for a
cow that was stomping out your cob mix would be a poor return. Cows may
look placid, but they have good kicking power. Being hospitalized or
killed is a real possibility for the inexperienced handler. I don't
recall cows ever being motivated to walk in circles, or dance about in
confined areas for hours on end, either. You are going to be dragging
them around and that's probably as much work as the cob mixing. Elsie
wants to lie down, chew her cud and occasionally get up and make cow
babies. Helping you doesn't enter into it. She also wants to be milked
2 or 3 times a day - and oh, yes, she has to be fairly clean for that
unless you are dumping the milk. A few gallons might be used for making
milk paint, but the rest?

 The local farmer isn't going to
lend you a cow - the dairy cow is either pregnant or needs to be, and
modern dairy cows tend to be ligaments holding up progressively heavier
kettle drums of milk. Some are so overbred, that the ligaments tear and
the udder winds up dragging. The stress to the cow's legs from going
through sticky clay isn't going to help that. I won't even get into
their incredible lack of intelligence - Holsteins are so stupid that
rolling over on their calves happens. They have one purpose for the
farmer - make milk. Intelligence has been bred out along the way.

The beef cow has one purpose for the farmer - to gain weight. Working
on the cob patch negates this and would toughen things up - not very
good steaks when they lack that nice (fat) marbling.. And, of course,
working on the wet, foot rot would also be a problem.

There would be a fair amount of labor taking care of a cow, should you
go out and buy your own - feeding, cleaning and a lot of foot care
would be a daily task. Don't forget vet bills, some sort of shelter,
access to water and hauling feed. You just can't hang the cow up at the
end of the day or skip a day of care and feeding. Too bad you can't do
cob that day - Elsie wants to eat and be milked several times.

Horses would not be a good choice either - too skittish for you to be
shoveling straw, water and clay under their feet. Foot rot is also a
factor for them as well. Kicking, biting and crushing you against the
side of a tree or fence are real possibilities. And harnesses are not
cheap.

 I will be building with cob (probably next year, if I
can decide on which land), but there's no way I would use animals - and
I have a fair amount of experience with cattle and horses. I think that
for cob building to go more "mainstream", mechanized mixing of some
sort has to occur. Things would be more quantifiable and I think, codes
would develop more easily as a result. You're not going to be able to
bring a cow into the suburbs to work for you, either - zoning
restrictions would surely be against this, even on a temporary basis.

  Sue

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