[Cob] Humanure is OFF TOPIC...

[Ocean Liff-Anderson]

...But what the hell?  Why not talk about the sh*t that needs to be  
taken care of in a green way.

To Joe - you don't have to pressure cook your sh*t to make it  
safe!!!  There is a natural process whereby it can be rendered  
harmless, free of pathogens.  This process is called "Humanure" and  
has been well studied and documented in the "Humanure Handbook".   
Basically you compost human waste with enough plant matter and for a  
long enough time (about a year) to render all pathogens dead,  
harmless, "no problemo" (an Ode to Bart)...  I

n the end, composted Humanure is odoless, harmless, resembles soil  
when the pile is taken apart and can be safely applied to fruit  
trees, landscape or just scattered in the woods.  Have I said it is  
HARMLESS?

But sanitation officials don't understand this!  They'd rather see  
the sh*t chemically treated, or collected in cold, underground tanks  
or outhouse pits where no healthy biological activity can take place,  
But if the officially sanctioned cesspools spring a leak, are you  
ever in trouble - pathogens everywhere!!!

So please up on Humanure!  You can find the Humanure Handbook at  
numerous places online, just Google it...I found one copy available  
used from Powells:  http://www.powells.com/biblio/0964425890?&PID=25450


On Jul 28, 2007, at 7:36 PM, joe r dupont wrote:

> Why not just get a big canning pressure cooker and sterilize the human
> manure and kill all the pathogens
> end of story. there has to be a cycle to make it totally  safe for  
> even
> human handling.
> will someone chime in?
> On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 14:27:06 -0400 David Elfstrom  
> <listbox at elfstrom.com>
> writes:
>> [An example of the laws, by-laws and zoning that interfere with
>> people
>> practicing sustainable living.]
>>
>> [picture in original article, link below]
>>
>> http://www.haywardwis.com/record/?section_id=34&story_id=233810
>>
>> Homestead runs afoul of county zoning rules
>> Terrell Boettcher / News Editor
>> Last updated: Wednesday, July 25th, 2007 09:38:07 AM
>>
>> A “humanure” bin stands near a house constructed of clay and straw
>> in
>> the town of Draper. The owners of the structures face potential
>> county/state sanctions for building these without permits.
>>
>> Two women who live in a mud-and-straw-bale structure northeast of
>> Winter
>> and have what they call a “humanure” compost crib for human waste
>> disposal face potential sanctions for not obtaining Sawyer County
>> sanitary and building permits.
>>
>> Michelle Piper (previously known as Michelle Murray) and Febe
>> Dancier
>> live on a five-acre wooded parcel near Black Dan Lake in the town
>> of
>> Draper. In addition to a 6 X 8-foot “humanure” crib, the property
>> has a
>> “cob” house 27 feet in circumference, a firewood and sawdust shed,
>> a
>> root cellar and a well with a hand pump. The site has no
>> electricity.
>> The house is 45 feet from a wetland and groundwater lies two feet
>> beneath the ground surface.
>>
>> During a July 19 trial in Sawyer County Circuit Court, Dancier wore
>> a
>> pair of jeans which displayed large letters with the epithet “f . .
>> .
>> war.” The judge and other parties in the court proceeding did not
>> raise
>> that as an issue.
>>
>> Piper, 31, and Dancier, 28, appeared without an attorney. Dancier,
>> who
>> is deaf, and Piper communicated via sign language. The county was
>> represented by Zoning Administrator Bill Christman and Attorney
>> Mike
>> Kelsey and the state by Carl Lippert, a wastewater specialist for
>> the
>> Department of Commerce Division of Safety and Buildings.
>>
>> On June 29, Judge Norman Yackel issued an order that the women
>> allow
>> county officials to inspect their property and take photos. On July
>> 10,
>> Christman along with sanitation technician Eric Wellauer and
>> Lippert
>> visited the property and took measurements and photos.
>>
>> The zoning office issued four citations, two to each woman, for
>> allegedly not obtaining a soil test or sanitary permit for the
>> humanure
>> compost pile and not obtaining a building permit for the residence.
>> Upon
>> conviction, each citation carries a forfeiture of $438.
>>
>> In court last Thursday, Christman testified that the zoning office
>> last
>> October received “numerous inquiries” about a “mud house” on the
>> property.
>>
>> A walk-through inspection revealed a residential structure and a
>> “humanure” system intended for disposal of human waste (an open-top
>> box
>> with timbered sides), Christman said.
>>
>> On July 10, county officials did a second walk-through inspection;
>> they
>> noticed that a second compost box had been built. A compost box is
>> not
>> an approved human waste disposal system in Wisconsin, Christman
>> said.
>>
>> The owners had not had the required soil test done, and had not
>> applied
>> for permits for either structure. Also, the cob house did not meet
>> the
>> county’s minimum requirement of 500 square feet for a one-bedroom
>> dwelling, Christman said.
>>
>> “We need assurance that there is some kind of septic system for the
>> proper disposal of human or animal waste, with a soil test and
>> sanitary
>> permit,” Christman said. A privy/outhouse over a pit dug in the soil
>> is
>> acceptable in certain situations, or alternatively over a sealed
>> vault,
>> he indicated. An open-pit privy would require a soil boring done by
>> a
>> certified contractor to ascertain whether there is sustainable soil
>> to
>> receive the waste, he said. The soil test is paid for by the
>> property owner.
>>
>> Christman said that on July 10, Murray and Dancier “welcomed us
>> onto
>> their property” and told the county officials ‘We gotta do what we
>> gotta
>> do.’”
>>
>> “We are not interested in taking $1,700 (in forfeitures) from” the
>> owners, Christman added. “There should be an opportunity for
>> resolution
>> or approval here.”
>>
>> Lippert testified that “We don’t approve compost systems. They have
>> to
>> meet national standards, and to my knowledge they (Murray and
>> Dancier)
>> have not met any of these standards.”
>>
>> The estimated five to 10 gallons of water per day that comes from
>> the
>> “humanure” pile would have to be treated through a private on-site
>> waste
>> treatment system (POWTS) such as a drain field, seepage cells, or
>> mound
>> system, Lippert indicated.
>>
>> He added that he does not believe an open-pit privy would pass
>> inspection at that location, but that a water-tight vault privy of
>> 200
>> gallons or more would be acceptable. It would have to be pumped out
>> every three to four months by a licensed hauler.
>>
>> The “humanure” system eventually will pollute groundwater, Lippert
>> said.
>> It is “very close” to a wetland, he said.
>>
>> Yackel found the owners guilty, but stayed the forfeitures provided
>> that
>> they obtain a sanitary permit for an open-pit privy or vault no
>> later
>> than Sept. 28 and a land use/building permit no later than Oct. 12.
>> If
>> they do apply for these permits, he will take another look at the
>> forfeitures, he said.
>>
>> He said if the owners don’t get permits, then they will have to pay
>> the
>> fines and the county can apply for a writ of assistance to take
>> further
>> action that it deems necessary.
>>
>> The problem with the defendants’ actions is they “set a precedent
>> for
>> others for development or their own use,” the judge said.
>>
>> Murray responded that “We wash our hands of this; we reject the
>> judgment
>> on us and we don’t wish to comply with the (county’s) letter.”
>>
>> Yackel responded that “The county and state have certain rules and
>> they
>> have to enforce those rules. Zoning is probably the most unusual
>> enforcement the county does because it affects what people can do
>> with
>> their property. It’s not you personally but a matter of law. The
>> county
>> can’t let you exist that way.”
>>
>> Back to nature
>>
>> On Friday, July 20, Piper and Dancier were cordial when a reporter
>> visited them at their property. Their van was parked just off North
>> Clover Road. Dozens of bumper stickers were plastered on the van
>> and
>> attached trailer, many expressing anti-war or feminist slogans. On
>> the
>> windshield was a peace emblem and the word “Anarchy.”
>>
>> Along the footpath leading from the van to the residential site were
>> two
>> boards attached to birch trees, each inscribed with writing. A mask
>> and
>> dreamcatcher was attached to another tree. Netting hung over the
>> footpath.
>>
>> Piper and Dancier asked that their picture not be taken but agreed
>> to
>> allow pictures of their buildings. As they spoke, a few kittens
>> walked
>> near Dancier’s feet.
>>
>> Piper said they bought the property in December 2005 and moved
>> there
>> from Elkhart Lake, Wis. in May 2006. “Several things happened to
>> kind of
>> lead to this,” she said. “We searched for land and bought this
>> parcel
>> because it was the cheapest. We lived in the van for six months.”
>>
>> Their residence is a “cob” structure made of clay and straw; “we
>> built
>> it all by hand,” Piper said. “It cost us under $1,000 to build.”
>>
>> The “humanure” system consists of a five-gallon pail plus the crib.
>> “Every time you go to the bathroom, you put in an equal amount of
>> sawdust,” Piper said. “You put that into the compost bin and put hay
>> or
>> traw atop that. Then you wash out your bucket. All the soap we use
>> is
>> biodegradable.”
>>
>> The house is heated with a 100-year-old wood stove donated by a
>> neighbor. Piper and Dancier stayed there last winter and “we managed
>> to
>> survive pretty well,” she said. “We’re actually pretty thriving.
>> It’s
>> kind of like living in a rock. The sun heats it during the day and
>> if
>> you also have interior heating, it soaks up the heat and radiates
>> heat
>> during the night. So we didn’t have to stoke the fire. When it was
>> 30
>> below zero we just hung out in the loft.”
>>
>> Inside the house, there are numerous jars of herbs for medicine and
>> teas, a bookshelf, and cloth banners with goddess images hanging
>> from a
>> string that stretches across the room. An aluminum keg with a tap
>> contains water.
>>
>> “We came here because we wanted to live a simple, quiet, peaceful
>> life
>> and not be harassed by anyone, to be self-sufficient, sustainable
>> and
>> not be sued (by government),” Piper said.
>>
>> “We don’t want to make any trouble either,” Piper added. “We feel
>> things
>> have gotten out of hand. We’re not going to run. We’re not selling
>> drugs.”
>>
>> She said that some area residents “have been really nice to us.
>> They’ve
>> given us wood. Some people let us to take showers at their place for
>> a
>> few months. A woman at the laundromat said if our fireplace doesn’t
>> work
>> or if something ever happens with us, we can always stay there when
>> it
>> gets cold.
>>
>> “Zoning and all the requirements may be part of the homeless
>> problem,”
>> she added. “It’s kind of a sticky situation. I think they (the
>> county)
>> are having a hard time deciding what to do with this because it’s so
>> out
>> of realm of what they’re used to dealing with. Five hundred square
>> feet
>> is an enormous space for us to build; we can only construct in the
>> summer. We used recyclable materials, glass bottles in the house.
>>
>> “It’s not finished yet; we want to do a living room as well with
>> clay or
>> rubber on the top, with soil and flowers,” Pilper added. “We want
>> to
>> plaster the outside and hopefully the inside next year if we’re
>> still here.”
>>
>> Asked what her goal is, Piper said “Our goal was to eventually
>> write
>> children’s books. We’ll see how that goes. Febe became deaf about 1
>> 1/2
>> years ago, so it’s been a journey. We do art, we write . . . .
>>
>> She and Dancier “are very good friends; we consider ourselves
>> sisters.
>> We don’t have family other than each other,” Piper added.
>>
>> “We basically won’t do anything” in response to the court action
>> last
>> week, Piper said.
>>
>>
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