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[Cob] ArchesJohn C Curry curryjc at yahoo.comTue Jan 25 16:40:13 CST 2011
I should get Kindra to chime in on this. We recently did a six foot arch over a doorway. She loves arches. Thanks, john -—-—-—- sent from iPhone On Jan 25, 2011, at 2:00 PM, coblist-request at deatech.com wrote: > Send Coblist mailing list submissions to > coblist at deatech.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.deatech.com/mailman/listinfo/coblist > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > coblist-request at deatech.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > coblist-owner at deatech.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Coblist digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Mysterious foundation moisture issue -- rising damp? > (Brian Liloia) > 2. Re: Mysterious foundation moisture issue -- rising damp? > (yewberry at wavecable.com) > 3. Re: arches (Dean Sherwin) > 4. Re: Mysterious foundation moisture issue -- rising damp? > (Henry Raduazo) > 5. Re: arches (Marlin Nissen) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 14:43:52 -0600 > From: Brian Liloia <evacindustry at gmail.com> > Subject: [Cob] Mysterious foundation moisture issue -- rising damp? > To: coblist at deatech.com > Message-ID: > <AANLkTi=UJuus8+Csmj9irYfcP4B2_7Uez2i_EeLkjzaX at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Hi there: > > I want to share a problem that I think is rising damp causing a pretty > serious issue in my house. I have a two course urbanite foundation with > clay/sand mortar above an 18" deep rubble trench, with ~18" thick cob walls. > I'm located in NE Missouri. > > This winter, about a week ago, I began to notice the infiltration of > moisture at the base of the wall inside -- some of the pieces of urbanite > have a wet look (beads of water on the face), there are wet spots on the > floor at the base of the wall, and the wall itself (12-18" up from the floor > level) is in some places damp, or even icy (really only the NW corner here), > and definitely has mold developing (a fluffy white mold that I have to > weekly spray with vinegar and wipe away). > > Over a month ago in December, the mold and moisture on the walls was already > present, but now the floor has those spots of water, too. Last winter, I > experienced this same problem and could not determine what it was. But now I > am itching to determine what is wrong, because the weekly spraying with > vinegar to clean the mold is unbearable, and the whole issue is a mystery. > > I have a couple of guesses. One is rising damp. Although that does not make > sense at this time of year. It's cold outside, there's some snow on the > ground (but not touching the foundation). The ground is frozen at least a > few inches down. The rubble trench should be whisking away any moisture that > gets near the house. > > Another guess is that moisture is wicking through the clay/sand mortar. Last > winter, the mortar was very wet in the spring (earthworms bore through!), > but since then I've done more work around the house to divert water. > > Another guess is condensation. It's very cold here, in the mid-20s during > the day, and teens at night, lately. The foundation has no insulation, nor > the walls. (All the walls are straight cob). The bottom of the wall is as > cold as 40? in some spots (the NW corner), according to an infrared > temperature sensor. (The walls are about 53? at eye height.) The coldest > walls are definitely the west and north, and these are the walls with the > greatest moisture problems. They are also least exposed to indoor air flow, > because the bed (and other furniture) is against the wall. The indoor air > temperature is about 60-65? during the day with my wood stove burning. Could > it be the temperature differential between the air and the base of the wall > causing condensation > > Could it be a mix of all of these things? I have no idea and am pretty > desperate to figure out what is wrong. > > Does anyone have any clues? Help would be dearly appreciated. > > Thanks for your time. > > www.small-scale.net/yearofmud > - ziggy > > -- > _________________ > I live at http://dancingrabbit.org > and this is the Year of Mud http://small-scale.net/yearofmud > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 16:36:14 -0800 > From: <yewberry at wavecable.com> > Subject: Re: [Cob] Mysterious foundation moisture issue -- rising > damp? > To: coblist at deatech.com > Message-ID: <web-82018662 at wavecable.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" > > Brian Liloia wrote: > >> Another guess is condensation. It's >> very cold here, in the mid-20s during >> the day, and teens at night, lately. >> The foundation has no insulation, nor >> the walls. (All the walls are straight >> cob). The bottom of the wall is as >> cold as 40? in some spots (the NW >> corner), according to an infrared >> temperature sensor. (The walls are >> about 53? at eye height.) The coldest >> walls are definitely the west and north, >> and these are the walls with the greatest >> moisture problems. They are also least >> exposed to indoor air flow, because >> the bed (and other furniture) is against >> the wall. > > I used to live in an uninsulated rental house here on the > rainy side of the mountains in the Pacific Northwest. > It's nowhere near as cold as where you are, but it's > relentlessly cool (highs in the low 40s, lows in the > mid-30s), gray, and rainy all winter. We had mold on the > lower third of our walls every year starting in October > and lasting through May. > > I don't have any advice, but I hope others here can be of > more help. > > Brina > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 19:20:20 -0500 > From: Dean Sherwin <costman at verizon.net> > Subject: Re: [Cob] arches > To: coblist at deatech.com > Message-ID: <0LFJ00E5RY9ULIT4 at vms173011.mailsrvcs.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > arches are nice and make lots of sense in a mass wall. rule of thumb > is up to 4' wide for unreinforced arch in masonry. For cob? 3' > should certainly be OK. Better to have significant amount of wall > above it (makes structural & aesthetic sense too). > I've only built one in adobe, using a semicircular form. That would > be one way to do it. (good to use form in 2 halves inside and out > each tapered down toward center of wall so you can withdraw them > after setting)(and or chocked up so form can be lowered in opening). > Traditional way one supposes would have been to cut the opening out > of the wall once it had partially dried. > Too low a rise is asking for cracking. Semicircular means rise is > half of width, I would not go less than 1/3 even for a fairly narrow > opening. Also the wider the arch the more buttress support it needs > from adjoining walls ie they cannot be too near ends or corners. > Dean Sherwin > > At 03:00 PM 1/24/2011, you wrote: > > > >> Arches are really nice. I saw a photo of an earth-sheltered house >> with two arches across the front above the windows. They were very >> wide with not much arc to them. I know this was done with concrete, >> but if I wanted to do this sort of thing with cob, how wide of an >> arch could I do? Anyone with experience or knowledge of large arches >> made of cob? >> Damon > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 22:01:26 -0500 > From: Henry Raduazo <raduazo at cox.net> > Subject: Re: [Cob] Mysterious foundation moisture issue -- rising > damp? > To: Brian Liloia <evacindustry at gmail.com> > Cc: coblist at deatech.com > Message-ID: <7B280F80-0171-4D6D-B277-7E3698D3B860 at cox.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > Brian: My guess would be condensation. The way to solve this is > insulation. On my walkout basement I buried foam along the footings > of my walls, and extended this up to the cob. I then used a fill > plaster of paper, sand and clay soil to blend the foam with the cob, > and I painted everything, the foam, the earth plaster and the plaster > covered cob wall with lime paint. It does not look too bad. You can > insulate either the inside or outside surface of the wall. I prefer > the outside in case the foam gasses off. > The walkout basement is cob on top of cinder blocks and it felt > oppressively humid when I put the roof on and closed the door so, I > covered the entire floor with 6 mil plastic and put a layer of > recycled brick tiles on top of the plastic. You could put any floor > surface on top of the plastic. I then painted the blocks with Kills > water seal and painted the kills with lime paint. That cut down the > moisture content of the air in the basement so I only get > condensation on the uninsulated glass doors and windows. I have > insulated glass skylights on which there is no condensation and of > course there is no condensation on the blocks or 8 inch thick cob walls. > I have never known concrete urbanite to conduct moisture to any > significant extent, but that could depend on the aggregate and on how > porous the cement was. Cement that was mixed with too much water or > which had a light weight aggregate like vermiculite or Solite could > of course conduct water in which case the only solution would be > kills water seal or something like that. Kills is also supposed to > contain a fungicide. > > Ed > On Jan 24, 2011, at 3:43 PM, Brian Liloia wrote: > >> Hi there: >> >> I want to share a problem that I think is rising damp causing a pretty >> serious issue in my house. I have a two course urbanite foundation >> with >> clay/sand mortar above an 18" deep rubble trench, with ~18" thick >> cob walls. >> I'm located in NE Missouri. >> >> This winter, about a week ago, I began to notice the infiltration of >> moisture at the base of the wall inside -- some of the pieces of >> urbanite >> have a wet look (beads of water on the face), there are wet spots >> on the >> floor at the base of the wall, and the wall itself (12-18" up from >> the floor >> level) is in some places damp, or even icy (really only the NW >> corner here), >> and definitely has mold developing (a fluffy white mold that I have to >> weekly spray with vinegar and wipe away). >> >> Over a month ago in December, the mold and moisture on the walls >> was already >> present, but now the floor has those spots of water, too. Last >> winter, I >> experienced this same problem and could not determine what it was. >> But now I >> am itching to determine what is wrong, because the weekly spraying >> with >> vinegar to clean the mold is unbearable, and the whole issue is a >> mystery. >> >> I have a couple of guesses. One is rising damp. Although that does >> not make >> sense at this time of year. It's cold outside, there's some snow on >> the >> ground (but not touching the foundation). The ground is frozen at >> least a >> few inches down. The rubble trench should be whisking away any >> moisture that >> gets near the house. >> >> Another guess is that moisture is wicking through the clay/sand >> mortar. Last >> winter, the mortar was very wet in the spring (earthworms bore >> through!), >> but since then I've done more work around the house to divert water. >> >> Another guess is condensation. It's very cold here, in the mid-20s >> during >> the day, and teens at night, lately. The foundation has no >> insulation, nor >> the walls. (All the walls are straight cob). The bottom of the wall >> is as >> cold as 40? in some spots (the NW corner), according to an infrared >> temperature sensor. (The walls are about 53? at eye height.) The >> coldest >> walls are definitely the west and north, and these are the walls >> with the >> greatest moisture problems. They are also least exposed to indoor >> air flow, >> because the bed (and other furniture) is against the wall. The >> indoor air >> temperature is about 60-65? during the day with my wood stove >> burning. Could >> it be the temperature differential between the air and the base of >> the wall >> causing condensation >> >> Could it be a mix of all of these things? I have no idea and am pretty >> desperate to figure out what is wrong. >> >> Does anyone have any clues? Help would be dearly appreciated. >> >> Thanks for your time. >> >> www.small-scale.net/yearofmud >> - ziggy >> >> -- >> _________________ >> I live at http://dancingrabbit.org >> and this is the Year of Mud http://small-scale.net/yearofmud >> _______________________________________________ >> Coblist mailing list >> Coblist at deatech.com >> http://www.deatech.com/mailman/listinfo/coblist > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:36:01 -0800 (PST) > From: Marlin Nissen <marlin_nissen at yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Cob] arches > To: coblist at deatech.com > Message-ID: <509870.7425.qm at web65817.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > ours was about 4 1/2 feet wide but it was a 'wall' for a garden NOT a building... > > lookup "Willy Street Co-op Cob wall Madison" and you should find photos of it.... > > Marlin Nissen > > ---------------------------------------------------- > > "I honestly think it is better to be a failure at something you love than to be a success at something you hate. " - George Burns > > --- On Mon, 1/24/11, Dean Sherwin <costman at verizon.net> wrote: > > From: Dean Sherwin <costman at verizon.net> > Subject: Re: [Cob] arches > To: coblist at deatech.com > Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 6:20 PM > > arches are nice and make lots of sense in a mass wall.? rule of thumb is up to 4' wide for unreinforced arch in masonry.? For cob?? 3' should certainly be OK.? Better to have significant amount of wall above it (makes structural & aesthetic sense too). > I've only built one in adobe, using a semicircular form.? That would be one way to do it.? (good to use form in 2 halves inside and out each tapered down toward center of wall so you can withdraw them after setting)(and or chocked up so form can be lowered in opening). > Traditional way one supposes would have been to cut the opening out of the wall once it had partially dried. > Too low a rise is asking for cracking.? Semicircular means rise is half of width, I would not go less than 1/3 even for a fairly narrow opening.? Also the wider the arch the more buttress support it needs from adjoining walls ie they cannot be too near ends or corners. > Dean Sherwin > > At 03:00 PM 1/24/2011, you wrote: > > > >> Arches are really nice. I saw a photo of an earth-sheltered house >> with two arches across the front above the windows. They were very >> wide with not much arc to them. I know this was done with concrete, >> but if I wanted to do this sort of thing with cob, how wide of an >> arch could I do? Anyone with experience or knowledge of large arches >> made of cob? >> Damon > > > _______________________________________________ > Coblist mailing list > Coblist at deatech.com > http://www.deatech.com/mailman/listinfo/coblist > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Coblist mailing list > Coblist at deatech.com > http://www.deatech.com/mailman/listinfo/coblist > > > End of Coblist Digest, Vol 9, Issue 8 > *************************************
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