[Cob] Coblist Digest, Vol 11, Issue 12

[Monica Proulx]

Re: all the email lately.

I'm hoping that people remember to "snip" or delete previous material so
that those of us who want to read the new replies quickly don't have to
scroll through so much stuff (and miss things in the process)!  There's
some interesting stuff in there.

Thanks all

On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 1:00 PM, <coblist-request at deatech.com> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re: Looking for answers (Henry Raduazo): mixing cob with
>       rototiller (Jill Hogan)
>    2. Re: mixing cob with rototiller (Kristen Davenport Katz)
>    3. Re: natural building (dhowell at pickensprogressonline.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2013 12:47:37 +0200
> From: Jill Hogan <info at mat.org.za>
> To: coblist at deatech.com
> Subject: Re: [Cob] Looking for answers (Henry Raduazo): mixing cob
>         with    rototiller
> Message-ID: <51347BC9.3010706 at mat.org.za>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi we built a 40 sqm cob house in 121 days using the old methods of
> stomping the cob. We had a team of 5 people and a carpenter. We only
> have compost toilets and grey water systems and cook in solor and wood
> stoves. Th e energy of humans set into the walls is amazing and we use
> this cottage as a self catering unit on MAT and guests love it coming
> back over and over again. Our website is www.mat.org.za so please visit
> us there.
>
> Jill Hogan
>
>
>
> On 2013/03/04 04:46 AM, E W wrote:
> > Dear Tim!thank you for your input. I coincide completely with your
> remarks; however I decided to make some compromises because else I will
> never be done.I have been building my house now for 3 years on weekends
> based alone on mud, straw and my quite weak human force alone... I love the
> results but I am very far away from having an habitat. Since I live in an
> earthquake prone area, I also decided that I will have exactly 8 cement
> columns to support the roof. I wouldn?t like to get buried in my cob house
> before my time... In any case, lift your spirit:  I produce "humanure" and
> save water; grey waters will be completely recycled and if everything goes
> well, I will hardly require energy for heating in the winter.  My
> neighbours are very curious about the cob building and if just some of
> their offspring follow my example when they build their houses, there will
> be a multiplicative effect.  So, not everything is wrong. Peace for all
> > Eric (EW)
> >   Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2013 06:30:00 -0800
> > From: humantim at yahoo.com
> > Subject: Re: [Cob] Looking for answers (Henry Raduazo): mixing cob with
> rototiller
> > To: ehwpc at hotmail.com; coblist at deatech.com
> >
> > I may just be off the beam with the general consensus here, but isn't
> the whole point of building naturally to stay away using from fossil fuels
> and machines and to rely on our human strength and what the natural world
> provides?
> > Using found materials and re-purposing concrete for a foundation is one
> thing...
> > I know I'm a hopeless romantic about the potential of this movement.
> >
> >
> >
> > Your brother in Christ,
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be
> seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."  John 3:21
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: E W <ehwpc at hotmail.com>
> > To: coblist at deatech.com
> > Sent: Saturday, March 2, 2013 10:07 PM
> > Subject: [Cob] Looking for answers (Henry Raduazo): mixing cob with
> rototiller
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Ed! i just read your comments to Marlin Nissen in the "Coblist"
> regarding the production of cob with a rototiller. You mentioned that you
> do the mixing with a 5HP tiller.I am about to start mixing for a 1500 sq
> feet house.
> >   Could you please share with me your experience and perhaps pictures?
> What about the long straw? Doesn't it get clogged to the rotor? Doesn`t it
> get cut into smaller pieces by the blades from the tiller?  I was thinking
> about renting a bobcat, but perhaps the rototiller is a better and cheaper
> solution...and I'd appreciate it if you'd share your experience. Thanks a
> lot!  Eric (EW)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Coblist mailing list
> > Coblist at deatech.com
> > http://www.deatech.com/mailman/listinfo/coblist
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Coblist at deatech.com
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> >
>
>
> --
> McGregor Alternative Technology
> McGregor Alternative Technology Center "MAT"
> Jill Hogan
> P.O. Box 365
> McGregor 6708   023 625 1533
> jill.hogan at mat.org.za
> www.mat.org.za <http://www.mat.org.za/>
>
> We need to be the change we wish to see in the world - "Mohandas Ghandi"
> McGregor Alternative Technology
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 06:23:25 -0700
> From: "Kristen Davenport Katz" <kristen at boxcarfarm.com>
> To: "'Jill Hogan'" <info at mat.org.za>,   <coblist at deatech.com>
> Subject: Re: [Cob] mixing cob with rototiller
> Message-ID: <012601ce18db$74481ab0$5cd85010$@boxcarfarm.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="UTF-8"
>
> Interestingly, we sang the whole time, too , and had a similarly peaceful
> experience. There's nothing inherently stressful about a cement mixer, and
> we certainly didn't "slap up a mud house."
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: coblist-bounces at deatech.com [mailto:coblist-bounces at deatech.com] On
> Behalf Of Jill Hogan
> Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 4:11 AM
> To: coblist at deatech.com
> Subject: Re: [Cob] mixing cob with rototiller
>
> We have people coming back and back to our project and once here we can't
> get them to leave. I spent a lot of time thinking "what is this was about"
> and I now realise that natural building is more than slapping up a mud
> house. Everyone who has built on my houses  has done so because they love
> the process. They come out From Cape Town very stressed and the contact
> with earth destresses them, th. That love is built into the walls and our
> healing centre heals many souls. That love just oozes out of the hand built
> walls. Cobbits Cottage was built with no power tools.
> They visably relax and slow down.
> We have honoured the earth around us with no sound violation or toxic
> fuels and the gardens and creatures have responded in the most amazing way.
>  Neighbours to projects we have built or restored remark that they love our
> working next to them as the only sounds they get is the slap, slap of
> either feet doing the cob boot dance or hands lovingly building the
> building. The other thing I have noticed is how often the team bursts into
> song - additional blessings to the healthy building.
> www.mat.org.za
>
>
>
> On 2013/03/04 01:31 AM, Kristen Davenport Katz wrote:
> > Yep?we put all the stuff in the cement mixer, turn it on, wiggle it a
> little bit ? you get the hang of it after a while, there are settings on
> the mixer so it can be pointed straight up or straight down , and we kinda
> shift it around a lot to make sure it all gets mixed together. And then
> dump it into a wheelbarrow. IT?s awesome. I?m a woman without much upper
> body strength and myself and some female friends did most of the work on
> these things. You have to get the mix right? I mean, you pay some attention
> to how much dirt, straw and water you put in to make the mix right and you
> don?t overload the mixer. Those are the only things to think about. We just
> toss the dirt in without screening it?but we do toss out the larger rocks.
> The small ones just go into the mixer. We got the mixer at Harbor Freight
> for not much money, I think $350, and it?s been great. I find cob to be
> incredibly forgiving and I think it?s way easier than other people seem to
> think it is. It?s so easy we built a cob chicken coop last year. Fun stuff.
> I learned this from a cool cob guy here in NM who teaches classes and
> learned from Ianto et al? I had this idea in my head that it all needed to
> be done by hand to be Authentic and he sorta rolled his eyes and said yeah,
> sure, if you want to take 5 years to build your 100 square foot bathroom,
> do it by hand. Or you can get it done in a week with a little electricity.
> Making cob with a cement mixer is very practical. In order to be
> sustainable it has to be practical. So I am not so idealistic about it any
> more, although I certainly see the attraction of doing it the very low-tech
> way (but frankly, a cement mixer is not all that high-tech or high-powered).
> >
> >
> >
> > Kristen
> >
> >
> >
> > From: bill at auburnacupuncture.net [mailto:bill at auburnacupuncture.net]
> > Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 8:59 AM
> > To: Kristen Davenport Katz; coblist at deatech.com
> > Subject: Re: [Cob] mixing cob with rototiller
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks Kristen,
> > So the cement mixer will do ALL the mixing!? I've seen people make the,
> "slip" in a C-mixer, then stomp straw into that manually, but you put ALL
> in ingredients into the mixer successfully!? Any detailed tips to be
> successful, or just go for it?
> > Thanks,
> > Bill
> >
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone
> >
> > ----- Reply message -----
> > From: "Kristen Davenport Katz" <kristen at boxcarfarm.com>
> > To: <avjyoung at shaw.ca>, <coblist at deatech.com>
> > Subject: [Cob] mixing cob with rototiller
> > Date: Sat, Mar 2, 2013 8:44 pm
> >
> >
> > We use a cement mixer. We got one for like $350 and it has lasted five
> > years so far. It definitely  makes the whole thing easier. Once mixed,
> > we dump the cob in the cement mixer into a wheelbarrow and push it
> > over. We put the cement mixer as close to the structure as possible so
> it's not a long haul.
> > Then you just lift handfuls and add it to the growing cob wall. The
> > hardest part is pushing the wheelbarrow. It's work, but it's not
> > backbreaking. We've put up two small structures this way and I
> > wouldn't hesitate to build a whole house like this. So if you have
> electricity, you can do this.
> >
> > Kristen
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: coblist-bounces at deatech.com [mailto:coblist-bounces at deatech.com]
> > On Behalf Of avjyoung at shaw.ca
> > Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 9:38 PM
> > To: coblist at deatech.com
> > Subject: Re: [Cob] mixing cob with rototiller
> >
> > Chiming in here because we have experience of mixing with rototiller
> > and small digger.... We borrowed a small digger with tracks, an arm,
> > and a bulldozer blade from a neighbour for $25CDN an hour and parked
> > it at our place so we could use it whenever we needed. We used the
> > scoop as a measure for making cob, and ended up with a pit in the
> > driveway to help contain the cob so it didn't spread all over, then
> > scraped it out when done so it was easier to access. Eventually the
> > neighbour needed it back, so we got a second-hand rototiller. We built
> > a platform about 9' x 9' from thin scrap wood and that works fine to
> > prevent the tines and cob from disappearing into the earth. The tines
> > need cleared of long straw sometimes, and I mix a bit more straw into
> > the cob manually as the rototiller doesn't seem able to get quite
> > enough in. I think you can blunt the tines with an angle grinder if they
> are chopping through the straw too much. Rototiller cost $50CDN.
> >
> > Amounts; mixing a small batch with a digger (one scoop clay, two
> > pumice, two sand, straw and water to taste), gives a lot of cob. We
> > had layers of tarps over it in the shade to stop it drying out and
> > sprayed it with the hose when it felt too dry. It was good for doing
> > walls with, when I was getting through a lot of cob very quickly. With
> > the rototiller, we mixed using a wheelbarrow as a measure. It ends up
> > quite wet, more so if you don't cover it with plastic against the
> > winter rains. I put a load in a wheelbarrow at the front and keep a
> > flake of straw at the back, and mix a handful of straw into every fork
> > load of cob. I think this helps counter straw rot from the longer
> > drying time in winter, and helps to dry it out a bit. Still wetter
> > cob, but smaller quantities, which works well for the interior
> > furniture and walls I am doing at the moment. I just do multiple thin
> lifts to let it dry enough.
> >
> > Cost; if you can figure something out like our arrangement with a
> > neighbour, it's way cheaper than a hire from the tool rental place.
> > The one time we did this, it worked out about $100 an hour for a
> > little bobcat. You only need it for 3-4 hours to mix a batch, but
> > still have to pay all the delivery fee etc. A rototiller is cheaper
> > again, and doesn't usually make more than one person can easily use, so
> it's not sitting too long.
> >
> > Overall, I would rather do either than mix by hand, as there are just
> > so many other things that need done to build a house / raise a family,
> > and mixing by hand is very time consuming. We are keen to get done so
> > we can move in, after 7 years building so far, so saving time is
> > getting more and more important for us.
> >
> > Hope this helps your decision-making,
> >
> > Anna
> > cob/bale timberframe in Victoria, BC
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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>
> --
> McGregor Alternative Technology
> McGregor Alternative Technology Center "MAT"
> Jill Hogan
> P.O. Box 365
> McGregor 6708   023 625 1533
> jill.hogan at mat.org.za
> www.mat.org.za <http://www.mat.org.za/>
>
> We need to be the change we wish to see in the world - "Mohandas Ghandi"
> McGregor Alternative Technology
> If you do not wish to receive mail from us, please email unsubscribe in
> your subject.
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 09:40:24 -0500
> From: "dhowell at pickensprogressonline.com"
>         <dhowell at pickensprogressonline.com>
> To: coblist at deatech.com
> Subject: Re: [Cob] natural building
> Message-ID:
>         <ABACF532-AE89-44EB-93CC-BFE21041C8F3 at pickensprogressonline.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>         Yes, in a way, it is the point to be natural and use human
> strength,
> but man kind's true strength is his brain which allows him to make
> tools that make the job easier. If you dig all your footings by hand
> (not with a shovel or pick axe) you may never get done. If you use
> chunks of urbanite and place by hand (someone already used a machine
> to mine limestone/ clay/stones and transport it and used a cement
> mixer to pour into forms made of 2x4's which were made at a mill).
> Then you start bending over to pull that man-made tarp with 100
> pounds of cob on it, and load into a wheelbarrow (man-made) only
> after all that you apply cob with your hand. So really, there's no
> way around using the genius of human ingenuity. But if you wanted to
> be truly natural but build a real sized house it's gonna take your
> whole life and all the while you'll have to live in a fox den. Not
> sure what you would eat since you can't kill or grow anything without
> tools. To what degree is fossil fuels being use it building cob
> accepted? My personal experience is that if you don't have a job, and
> someone else takes care of all your material needs, then you can take
> 10 years to build your house for $500, but most of us don't have that
> luxury.
>
> Damon
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of Coblist Digest, Vol 11, Issue 12
> ***************************************
>