Cob: Re: Please Help, listers please read this

[Liberaro at aol.com]

In a message dated 6/30/99 10:42:03 PM EST, mzan at arn.net writes:

Thank you very much for responding to my call for help.  However, I cannot 
BELIEVE the response I got from you.  I decided to post your letter to me, 
and my response, to the cob list as a whole because I believe that there are 
other people on the list who could add to this discussion, help me defend 
myself, and help calm your fears about the safety of my children.  PLEASE be 
clear, I love my children and care about their health, safety and welfare 
more than ANY other person in the world.  

<< I am on the cob list, and just received your letter above. I'm not a 
 building code inspector nor a lawyer and I deeply sympathize with you. 
 However, I am curious as we are planning on building a cob house someday. 
 What sort of setup do you have for a bathroom and how/where do you get 
 your water? Is your house in town?>>

we have a 1500 gal. underground cement cistern (in its own house) for shower, 
dish, and general washing up water.  it is regularly filled with tap water 
from town by a local water delivery company.  my husband works at the health 
food store in town and so we get all of our drinking and cooking water from 
there (in the form of several 5 gal jugs per week).  we have a sump pump with 
a garden hose attached to the cistern and we turn the pump on and off through 
a breaker switch in the house, which is how we fill the 5 gal. "solar shower" 
which is hanging above the kitchen sink.  we keep that filled and voila we 
have running water, albeit 5 gallons at a time.  And No, our house is not in 
town, we are far outside of town in the county.  regarding our bathroom 
facilities - we have 40 acres.

<<Having done business with the building code inspector recently on the other 
side of the fence I could understand why there would even be codes. If you're 
using an open latrine or 
 port-a-potties, there could be a serious health hazzard to you, your  baby, 
your whole family and all those who live in close proximity with you. Even 
urine seeping into the ground from 1,000 ft in distance is harmful and 
hazzardous to the health of everyone downstream ....or next door. >>

I and my entire family eat nothing but organic food and none of us has been 
sick in forever, we're healthy as horses.  as i mentioned above, we have 40 
acres of land, as for the comment that "urine seeping into the ground from 
1,000 ft distance is harmful and hazzardous to the health of everyone 
downstream".... the nearest dirt road is over 3,000 ft. away, there is nobody 
next door, and i don't pee in a stream (there are none even if i wanted to).  
furthermore, it was my understanding that urine was sterile (unless there is 
some specific disease present).  as a matter of fact, Gandhi started the day 
by drinking some of his own urine (i'm not advocating this).  

<<Even when you go camping, there are rules to follow about urine and feces 
for the health sake of everyone.>>

When one goes camping there is no way to know what the health status is of 
the people who were there before you.  not so the case with my land.

<< I hope you can get this matter settled in an honest and forthright way 
without trying to 'evade' the rules or the system because believe me, they 
are there for your own sake 
 as well as your baby's safety.>>

Respectfully, *I* am here for my baby's safety.

<< People can actually die from the kind of diseases you can get from 
contaminated water, earth, etc that is contaminated from urine or feces or 
old dirty water.>>  

I am not consuming contaminated water, i wouldn't think of it; and i disagree 
that we are contaminating the earth.  i am just curious, do my 4 dogs and 6 
cats and hundreds of head of cattle on property near mine that pee and poop 
all over the land worry you, or is it just us? In fact, all of our nearest 
neighbors have horses, one single horse (and there are many) produces more 
urine and feces than my entire family in any given day.

<< Please remember these rules are written to protect you, not to harm you. 
Try to rectify 
 your sanitary methods and bring them up to code.>>

we moved from Denver where we lived in a very nice condominium.  This condo, 
however, happened to be located right underneath the Brown Cloud which is 
denver's air.  That brown cloud raises childhood cancer and asthma rates in 
Denver, it is the worst air in the country second only to LA.  In addition, 
this lovely place happened to be *infested* with cockroaches (talk about 
DISEASES!), and was made beautiful by plush toxic carpet, and lovely 
formaldahyde countertops, which outgassed all day, every day etc. etc.  In 
contrast, out here we have fresh air - all we can suck up - absolutely no 
cockroaches, and minimal outgassing of toxic building materials.  which 
living situation do you think that the laws set out to "protect me, not harm 
me" sanction as the healthful living environment?  despite the fact that we 
may pee outside, i believe that our health is more protected out here.

<< Now to tell you my story about being on the other side of the building 
code inspector's 
 inspection.  My husband and I were trying to buy a nice looking, reasonable 
priced 
 house for around $45,000 in a very nice, small town. When the house 
inspector came out to inspect the house we were 'buying', he found that the 
electricity was arching in the attic, there were open splices of all kinds 
and sorts, there was a gas leak in the yard, and seeping sewer pipes, leaking 
out onto the lawn near the alley, un-noticed and so small 
 you could hardly have ever smelled anything. Well, the house inspector 
 said if we had bought that house without an inspection, we probably 
 wouldn't have lived there more than a few weeks before it either blew up 
 or we were electrocuted or there was a flash fire, then an explosion, and 
 or 17 different diseases available, all life threatening, from the 
 leaking sewer pipe out back. So I am very thankful there are building 
 code inspectors out there who risk angry people wanting their 'rights' to 
 put others in danger around them.>>

I am very glad you didn't buy that house.  for the record, i would never ever 
advocate anyone buying a house without it being inspected for SAFETY.  prior 
to buying this place we had the cistern, septic, and electric all checked for 
usability and safety.  i am not asking for the "right" to "put others in 
danger" around me.  i am asking for the right to not be made homeless (or 
worse, have my children ripped from me) because someone out there is trying 
to "protect" me.  with those kinds of friends, who needs enemies!

<< Please, Please, reconsider your baby's safety at this point in time. Is it 
fair to your own child to make him/her live under those dangerous 
conditions?>>

I must admit that you really frighten me with this sentence above.  my baby's 
safety (all 3 of my children's safety) is far more important to me than it 
could ever be to you.  i am *most certainly not* making them living under 
dangerous conditions of any kind.  please be clear on this.

<< Be compliable with the building code inspector and he will give you so 
many days to get 
 alternate plumbing, etc. and the more you try to hide and twist around to 
suit your own answers, the harder things will be on your own child. I work 
for the child protective services here in Texas and I can't imagine exposing 
my child to conditions as unhealthy as that for an exptended period of time.>>

Again, i must reiterate:  Things Are Not Hard On My Children.  i must ask, 
you can't imagine exposing your child to conditions as unhealthy as WHAT?  no 
one is diseased, we have 40 acres, far far away from the house and near 
absolutely no water supply of any kind, which to fertilize.  when scattered 
far and wide *nothing* remains of any given waste product within about 48 
hrs, by the way.

<< Besides there are so many diseases out there now that can kill you, that 
you can't get over, it's well worth the cost of plumbing or....perhaps moving 
until you can afford plumbing. I hope you will reconsider your child's safety 
as well as your own and as well as your 
 neighbors.>>

there may be a lot of diseases out there that can kill you - however, 
thankfully, no one in my family has them!  sure, plumbing is well worth the 
cost -- i am not stubbornly refusing to install plumbing although my savings 
account spilleth over, we cannot afford it yet.  as for moving, we can't 
afford rent, we have a mortgage already.

<< By the way, are you aware that outdoor toliets and outhouses can explode 
from a single match and blow up one whole block in area? Is it really worth 
it? rethink this, please. sincerely mz >>

is this really a problem that is facing outhouse users in this country??  i 
heard the other day on National Public Radio that there are still something 
like 250,000 households in this country who rely exclusively on outhouses.  i 
visited a commune in missouri a few years back that had about 70 full-time 
residents, they have used outhouses exclusively at that community for 25+ 
years without incident, including explosion.  i feel quite safe, actually.

i am really quite concerned now that somebody who believes they know what is 
best for me and my kids will do something that will result in my family being 
ripped apart (which would crush my kids like nothing else could).  i BEG you, 
to take back my entire letter and pretend you never heard of me, please.

trina