Cob: Solar Power

[Robin Magee]

Thanks Dave for the great and informative reminder of how much we can do
before plunking down the money for a PV system.

I'm really interested in the "ghost loads" issue.  How did you discover
them?

Robin

> From: "David & Sheila Knapp" <solar at aeroinc.net>
> Reply-To: "David & Sheila Knapp" <solar at aeroinc.net>
> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 20:52:47 -0500
> To: "coblist" <coblist at deatech.com>
> Subject: Re: Cob: Solar Power
> 
> Assuming you are building a reasonable sized Cob home (one that you can finish
> in THIS lifetime), your prospective PV system for your current home would be a
> magnitude bigger than what would be needed for your future COB home (wasted
> money).  PV prices are slowly & steadily coming down and you could save a lot
> of money by waiting until you have fully designed you new Cob home and did a
> site survey and load analysis to buy the "right" sized PV system.
> 
> I second everything that Shannon says.
> 
> You do not need a solar PV system to learn how to live lightly on the planet.
> PV electricity is very expensive and it is not very cost effective if you
> already have grid power.  A lot of grid power may only cost you $50 - $150 per
> month, but a whole lot of PV power will only generate the equivalent $5 - $15
> per month.
> 
> It is almost impossible for you to cost effectively change to a PV system
> where you now live because 90% of your appliances are going to be the wrong
> type.  Electric water heaters, water bed heaters, electric stove, base board
> heaters, etc. are automatically out of the question.  Your refrigerator, any
> chest freezer, air conditioner, or dehumidifier is also going to have to be
> replaced or removed.  Efficient refrigerators that work well on solar PV power
> will cost you $1500 - $2500.  Why?  The extremely efficient refrigerator will
> use 1 - 2 solar PV modules worth of power vs. your conventional refrigerator
> which will use 15 - 25 solar PV modules all by itself (at $400 - $600 per PV
> module). They do make propane powered refrigerators (not the RV type!), but I
> do not care to use any more propane than I have to.
> 
> Also, your electronic appliances like your TV, VCR, microwave, clock radio,
> doorbell transformer, garage door opener, Sony Playstation, GFCI outlets &
> breakers, etc. will steal a huge unacceptable load from your PV system that
> you never even knew about on grid power.  These phantom Ghost loads come from
> the clocks and other circuitry that is standing by waiting for you to use the
> remote control or to read the time or to instantly activate their functions.
> You would need a whole PV system just for these wasted loads if you did not
> know about them and know how to deal with them.  We have our TV & VCR on a
> wall switch outlet and turn the switch on when we want to use them.  TV's take
> a lot of power (like running a 100 watt light-bulb for many hours for most
> families).  We dumped our clock radio and use solar powered clocks from
> Jademountain.com.  We use outlet strips and unplug or shut them off when the
> appliances are being used.  Our microwave oven has a mechanical timer rather
> than a power wasting clock.  Our gas cook stove is the electronic ignition
> type.  Most gas cook stoves are the glow bar type and gobble down tons of
> electricity just to bake a dozen cookies with gas power.
> 
> You don't need a huge PV system to learn to live like you will in your future
> COB home.  We lowered our grid power bill from ~$125 a month in 1991 to about
> $25 per month over time by 1996.  We got rid of phantom Ghost loads one at a
> time as we discovered them.  I brought home one compact fluorescent light per
> month until we got rid of all of our heavy energy consuming incandescent lamps
> (except for the coat closet).  We still have a Sears refrigerator and a Sears
> chest freezer and an old hand me down Sears electric dryer (we use a close
> line 90% of the time).  If we could afford to replace these appliances now, we
> would.  We would also lower our utility bill down to about $5 per month plus
> meter charge.  We would do this, but it is not cost effective for us to do it
> right now.  Instead we are working on paying off our mortgage while our son is
> finishing graduating from high school in three years and then we will build
> our new off-grid solar home on our new land in CO (with no utility access)
> with new highly efficient appliances.  We do have a small PV system now.  It
> would cost about $2,500 if purchased new now (I am an engineer and love to
> scrounge).  We use it as training wheels to power our washing machine, utility
> lights, recharge electric lawn mower & weed eater, & as backup power for
> utility outages (kind of handy).  When we move into our new solar home we will
> know how to use power wisely not because we have a PV system, but because we
> know how to lower our monthly utility bill as low as possible without
> sacrificing much comfort.
> 
> Please follow all of the links given to you, but do not feel afraid if any
> look too technical or overwhelming.  I sent my dear wife to a solar weekend
> workshop and it was great that she could now follow my conversations about PV!
> I was so impressed that I sent Sheila and our 14 year old son to a local
> college class and afterwards they passed their Technician Ham Radio license
> tests with flying colors (now we don't need cell phones to stay in touch via
> our solar recharged ham radios).
> 
> To learn more about living on PV and more importantly how to lower your power
> usage, please read this great article written by a good friend of mine: Going
> Solar? Why Not Go All the Way? at:
> http://www.chelseagreen.com/Chiras/GoingGreen.htm  and Fine Tuning for Solar
> Electric Living. What you need to know to design a successful solar electric
> system. http://www.chelseagreen.com/Chiras/FineTuning.htm
> 
> After you read these articles, will be set to built the most efficient powered
> Cob house you can ever dream of!  (or at least know what questions to ask!).
> 
> Take care,
> 
> Dave
> _________________________________________________
> 
> David & Sheila Knapp
> Winnebago, Illinois
> http://www.esolarliving.com/
> _________________________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shannon C. Dealy" <dealy at deatech.com>
> To: "Kimberly Hoyer" <knh78 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: <coblist at deatech.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 6:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Cob: Solar Power
> 
> 
>> On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Kimberly Hoyer wrote:
>> 
>>> This may or may not be appropriate for this discussion
>>> list but I'll ask anyhow. I am looking to convert to
>>> solar power. I currently own a 3-bedroom, stick-built
>>> house from roughly 1930. In the future, I plan to buy
>>> some land and build a cob home. I would like to find a
>>> system that is compatible with my current home but can
>>> take with me when I build the cob home. I have almost
>>> zero knowledge of good solar systems and the companies
>>> attached. I also know nothing about electrical
>> [snip]
>> 
>> While this is kind of off topic, most people are going to want power in
>> their cob house, so . . .
>> 
> 
> 
> 
>