Cob: RE: RE: RE: Mud Hut

Fri Jan 17 14:03:18 CST 2003

O.K.,I know I'm perpetuating this political off topic line. I'll stop after
this.
Brent. You're obviously very bitter and angry over what has been done to the
Native Americans
and other indigenous peoples around the world. I'm not going to get
defensive
because I don't defend what has been done to these people. I agree with a
lot of 
what you are saying here. I'm not going to make fun of your spelling either.
That 
would be immature. If you want to get through to people, you need to not
just blurt it
out in such a hostile way. Abe, while he might not have all his facts
straight, was 
simply making the point that all we can do, short of going back in time, is
to make
the best of what we have now, do the best we can and I would add- try not to
make
the same mistakes over and over again. I did pledge allegance by the way but
I
was just a child at the time and didn't know as much as I do now. Does that
make
me worthy of all your venom?

-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Flaco Wilson [mailto:realm_fitness at hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 8:47 PM
To: abe at abeconnally.com; coblist at deatech.com
Subject: Re: Cob: RE: RE: RE: Mud Hut

i would like to address 2 comments made.  One relating to life span of 
people from the past.  25 years is a little short sighted, that sounds as if

a european aristocrat was describing the life span of a "savage." It has 
been said in the past of elders being 100 hundred winters or more.  IT seems

as if those people who lived before this modern industrail time had healthy 
lifes, long ones, and the lifespan death rate is not really different then 
today, it's just that theres more people in documentation so it seems as if 
the birth rate and lifespan is up.  The other issue is the difference 
between "3rd" and "1st" world.  THere is in fact huge differences.  3rd 
world countries are not largely anglo saxon, imigrant, european descent, or 
wealthy.  THough they are in fact indigenous, culturally rich, poor, abused 
and used by the first world for rubber, oil, trees, fabric, food, etc.  We 
should actually focus on the difference and find out, it's our cars, our 
clothes, our jewelry our bananas, our beef that is furthering the distance 
between first and third world.  Oh and one more thing, native american 
persons, cultures are a whole mind set away from our current "western" flow 
of life.  Many of the native americans had harmonious lifestyles, being part

of the earth, not dominating her etc.  I think it's important that we 
realized that our "us" power of pride way of life took mass genicide of 
natives, mass enslavement of africans, mass manipulation of poor pheasants 
from europe, mass movements of racist religious rhetoric to establish this 
"great" life we live.  I never pledged allegiance, did you?

>From: "Abe Connally" <abe at abeconnally.com>
>Reply-To: "Abe Connally" <abe at abeconnally.com>
>To: <coblist at deatech.com>
>Subject: Cob: RE: RE: RE: Mud Hut
>Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:28:13 -0600
>
>RE: Mud HutBen,
>
>That is exactly my point.  You shouldn't feel trapped in the the modern
>world.  Be "part" of it and everything around you, just like the Native
>Americans.  Your environment is different, but I am sure you will find that
>you have a lot in common with a man living 10,000 years ago.  Sure, you
>could argue that life was simpler, focused, less strssful, etc.  But it 
>also
>was hard work, dangerous, and extremely difficult (most people had a life
>span of about 25 years). The world is always the same, but it is how you
>look at it and your surroundings that changes.  I am sure that there were
>plenty of pre-modern men that felt their life was pretty pointless and 
>drab.
>
>But that is only the perception of what is really there.  Look at the world
>we live in!!!  Be excited that you can communicate with anyone in the world
>no matter where you live.  I, for one, would not even be living off the
>grid, if it hadn't been for the grid.  ya know  :)
>
>There is the same amount of earth under your feet in San Francisco as the
>middle of Africa.  Plant a garden in your backyard, make a cob bread oven
>(one of my favorite projects because you get to eat your rewards!!!!),
>recycle, love life, and have fun!
>
>You can balance modern vs traditional.  There is no such thing as third
>world, first world.  We only have one world.  Make the most of it!  Cob a
>little every day.
>
>Abe
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Ben Harrison [mailto:bharrison at crystald.com]
>   Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 12:53 PM
>   To: 'Abe Connally'; coblist at deatech.com
>   Subject: RE: RE: RE: Mud Hut
>
>
>   Point well taken. I envy you. I'm 37years young, married for 13 years 
>this
>month and have an 8year old son.
>   I work in the video games industry in the Bay area and while I enjoy a
>comfortable life style free from debt
>   except for a very managable mortgage payment, I long for a different 
>kind
>of lifestyle. Alot of people would
>   kill to have my life. I love my family emmensly and would never put my 
>own
>desires/excentricities above their
>   well being but there is a part of me that would love to do what you and 
>so
>many of the others on this list are
>   doing or trying to do. I'm an artist and a dreamer that feels trapped in
>this modern life. So, I guess I'll have to
>   live vicariously through the rest of you and count my blessings.
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Abe Connally [mailto:abe at abeconnally.com]
>     Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 10:19 AM
>     To: coblist at deatech.com
>     Subject: Cob: RE: RE: Mud Hut
>
>
>     Yes,
>
>     Joseph Campbell can illustrate the path for anyone.  Another good read
>of his is "The Hero with a Thousand Faces"
>
>     What we must learn is how to merge our current knowledge and 
>technology
>with the balance of the past.  There is no reason why one cannot have both.
>Build with cob, use alternative energy, and still surf the net in the
>afternoon.  Actually, the best example is this list.  A discussion of like
>minds that spans continents, but the subject matter is over 10,000 years
>old.
>
>     My girlfriend and I are building a self-sustainable home nessled in 
>the
>mountains of the Chihuahuan desert.  We are building out of cob and stone
>(both readily available)and including the standard gridless setup (ie..
>rainwater catchment, solar and wind energy, passive solar design, etc).  We
>are also including modern conveniences like High speed satellite internet
>access, propane refrigeration, electric lights, etc.
>
>     Anything is possible.  Just focus your thoughts and energy on what 
>needs
>to be accomplished, and then look and what you lack.  If done in the right
>frame of mind, you will never lack anything.
>
>       -----Original Message-----
>       From: owner-coblist at deatech.com [mailto:owner-coblist at deatech.com]On
>Behalf Of Ben Harrison
>       Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 11:42 AM
>       To: 'sarah kercheval'; coblist at deatech.com
>       Subject: Cob: RE: Mud Hut
>
>
>       I happen to own this book. I picked it up from Borders books several
>months
>       ago. It really is a great book. It's pretty much the only
>comprehensive book
>       I've been able to find on "primative architecture" of any kind. I
>would highly
>       recommend it to anyone interested in such things. I thoroughly agree
>with Sarah's
>       sentiments. There used to be a balance between man and nature. When 
>I
>look at what
>       the world has become and the world that the native Americans thrived
>in, their world
>       looks quite utopian by comparison. It was only when man put himself
>above nature
>       (rather than a humble piece within nature) that the slow but steady
>march toward this
>       mess that we have now began. You could blame it on the rise of the
>Europeans(of which I'm decended)
>       but it really goes back to the birth of the the Judao-Christian
>religions. There was
>       a time when my ancestors in Europe lived much like the native
>Americans. Yes, like it or not,
>       religion and science are both equally to blame for the dead end road
>we find ourselves racing down.
>       The Power of Myth by Joseph Campbell is another great book I would
>recommend.
>
>       -----Original Message-----
>       From: sarah kercheval [mailto:hi_eagle at hotmail.com]
>       Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 8:15 AM
>       To: coblist at deatech.com
>       Subject: Cob: Mud Hut
>
>
>
>       Yes, I agree, just call it what it is, and be proud!
>       Check out a really great book called Native American Architecture, 
>the
>next
>       time you're at the library.  It is a great resource of natural
>buildings
>       that populated our landscape not too long ago.  We are looking to
>pruchase
>       this book in the future to reinforce our proof that what you live in
>is not
>       as important as HOW you live, ie, safe healthy, eco concious living
>       structures.
>       The proof positive that these structures are superior, is in the 
>fact
>that
>       they no longer can be seen standing in most places.  They are 
>gentler
>and
>       kinder to the earth in that they go back to it when their time is
>over.
>       This is in itself natural.
>       Sarah
>
>
>
>       >From: "neana" <neana at terraworld.net>
>       >Reply-To: "neana" <neana at terraworld.net>
>       >To: coblist at deatech.com
>       >Subject: RE: Cob: adobe/cob Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:20:36 -0600
>       >
>       >Everytime I mention these concepts to someone who is not 'into
>natural
>       >building', they cut across all of our carefully worded definitions
>and
>       >exclaim, "Are you REALLY going to build a MUD HUT?".  Since I have
>planned
>       >an amalgamation(sp?) of methods from the beginning, I have quit
>fighting
>       >and just answer, "Yep.  Got a problem with that?".
>       >
>       >;)
>       >Neana
>       >PS: Very punny, Matt!
>
>
>
>       Custom Waldorf Dolls available for you or a special little friend:
>       http://www.angelfire.com/sk/clothdiaperlove/dolls2.html
>
>       _________________________________________________________________
>       MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*.
>       http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.377 / Virus Database: 211 - Release Date: 7/15/2002

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O.K.,I know I'm perpetuating this political off topic line. I'll stop after this.
 Brent. You're obviously very bitter and angry over what has been done to the Native Americans
 and other indigenous peoples around the world. I'm not going to get defensive
 because I don't defend what has been done to these people. I agree with a lot of 
 what you are saying here. I'm not going to make fun of your spelling either. That 
 would be immature. If you want to get through to people, you need to not just blurt it
 out in such a hostile way. Abe, while he might not have all his facts straight, was 
 simply making the point that all we can do, short of going back in time, is to make
 the best of what we have now, do the best we can and I would add- try not to make
 the same mistakes over and over again. I did pledge allegance by the way but I
 was just a child at the time and didn't know as much as I do now. Does that make
 me worthy of all your venom?

<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Brent Flaco Wilson [<A HREF="mailto:realm_fitness at hotmail.com">mailto:realm_fitness at hotmail.com</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 8:47 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: abe at abeconnally.com; coblist at deatech.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: Re: Cob: RE: RE: RE: Mud Hut</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=2>i would like to address 2 comments made.  One relating to life span of </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>people from the past.  25 years is a little short sighted, that sounds as if </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>a european aristocrat was describing the life span of a "savage." It has </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>been said in the past of elders being 100 hundred winters or more.  IT seems </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>as if those people who lived before this modern industrail time had healthy </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>lifes, long ones, and the lifespan death rate is not really different then </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>today, it's just that theres more people in documentation so it seems as if </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the birth rate and lifespan is up.  The other issue is the difference </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>between "3rd" and "1st" world.  THere is in fact huge differences.  3rd </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>world countries are not largely anglo saxon, imigrant, european descent, or </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>wealthy.  THough they are in fact indigenous, culturally rich, poor, abused </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>and used by the first world for rubber, oil, trees, fabric, food, etc.  We </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>should actually focus on the difference and find out, it's our cars, our </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>clothes, our jewelry our bananas, our beef that is furthering the distance </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>between first and third world.  Oh and one more thing, native american </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>persons, cultures are a whole mind set away from our current "western" flow </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>of life.  Many of the native americans had harmonious lifestyles, being part </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>of the earth, not dominating her etc.  I think it's important that we </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>realized that our "us" power of pride way of life took mass genicide of </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>natives, mass enslavement of africans, mass manipulation of poor pheasants </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>from europe, mass movements of racist religious rhetoric to establish this </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>"great" life we live.  I never pledged allegiance, did you?</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>

>From: "Abe Connally" <abe at abeconnally.com>
 >Reply-To: "Abe Connally" <abe at abeconnally.com>
 >To: <coblist at deatech.com>
 >Subject: Cob: RE: RE: RE: Mud Hut
 >Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:28:13 -0600
 >
 >RE: Mud HutBen,
 >
 >That is exactly my point.  You shouldn't feel trapped in the the modern
 >world.  Be "part" of it and everything around you, just like the Native
 >Americans.  Your environment is different, but I am sure you will find that
 >you have a lot in common with a man living 10,000 years ago.  Sure, you
 >could argue that life was simpler, focused, less strssful, etc.  But it 
 >also
 >was hard work, dangerous, and extremely difficult (most people had a life
 >span of about 25 years). The world is always the same, but it is how you
 >look at it and your surroundings that changes.  I am sure that there were
 >plenty of pre-modern men that felt their life was pretty pointless and 
 >drab.
 >
 >But that is only the perception of what is really there.  Look at the world
 >we live in!!!  Be excited that you can communicate with anyone in the world
 >no matter where you live.  I, for one, would not even be living off the
 >grid, if it hadn't been for the grid.  ya know  :)
 >
 >There is the same amount of earth under your feet in San Francisco as the
 >middle of Africa.  Plant a garden in your backyard, make a cob bread oven
 >(one of my favorite projects because you get to eat your rewards!!!!),
 >recycle, love life, and have fun!
 >
 >You can balance modern vs traditional.  There is no such thing as third
 >world, first world.  We only have one world.  Make the most of it!  Cob a
 >little every day.
 >
 >Abe
 >   -----Original Message-----
 >   From: Ben Harrison [<A HREF="mailto:bharrison at crystald.com">mailto:bharrison at crystald.com</A>]
 >   Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 12:53 PM
 >   To: 'Abe Connally'; coblist at deatech.com
 >   Subject: RE: RE: RE: Mud Hut
 >
 >
 >   Point well taken. I envy you. I'm 37years young, married for 13 years 
 >this
 >month and have an 8year old son.
 >   I work in the video games industry in the Bay area and while I enjoy a
 >comfortable life style free from debt
 >   except for a very managable mortgage payment, I long for a different 
 >kind
 >of lifestyle. Alot of people would
 >   kill to have my life. I love my family emmensly and would never put my 
 >own
 >desires/excentricities above their
 >   well being but there is a part of me that would love to do what you and 
 >so
 >many of the others on this list are
 >   doing or trying to do. I'm an artist and a dreamer that feels trapped in
 >this modern life. So, I guess I'll have to
 >   live vicariously through the rest of you and count my blessings.
 >
 >     -----Original Message-----
 >     From: Abe Connally [<A HREF="mailto:abe at abeconnally.com">mailto:abe at abeconnally.com</A>]
 >     Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 10:19 AM
 >     To: coblist at deatech.com
 >     Subject: Cob: RE: RE: Mud Hut
 >
 >
 >     Yes,
 >
 >     Joseph Campbell can illustrate the path for anyone.  Another good read
 >of his is "The Hero with a Thousand Faces"
 >
 >     What we must learn is how to merge our current knowledge and 
 >technology
 >with the balance of the past.  There is no reason why one cannot have both.
 >Build with cob, use alternative energy, and still surf the net in the
 >afternoon.  Actually, the best example is this list.  A discussion of like
 >minds that spans continents, but the subject matter is over 10,000 years
 >old.
 >
 >     My girlfriend and I are building a self-sustainable home nessled in 
 >the
 >mountains of the Chihuahuan desert.  We are building out of cob and stone
 >(both readily available)and including the standard gridless setup (ie..
 >rainwater catchment, solar and wind energy, passive solar design, etc).  We
 >are also including modern conveniences like High speed satellite internet
 >access, propane refrigeration, electric lights, etc.
 >
 >     Anything is possible.  Just focus your thoughts and energy on what 
 >needs
 >to be accomplished, and then look and what you lack.  If done in the right
 >frame of mind, you will never lack anything.
 >
 >       -----Original Message-----
 >       From: owner-coblist at deatech.com [<A HREF="mailto:owner-coblist at deatech.com">mailto:owner-coblist at deatech.com</A>]On
 >Behalf Of Ben Harrison
 >       Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 11:42 AM
 >       To: 'sarah kercheval'; coblist at deatech.com
 >       Subject: Cob: RE: Mud Hut
 >
 >
 >       I happen to own this book. I picked it up from Borders books several
 >months
 >       ago. It really is a great book. It's pretty much the only
 >comprehensive book
 >       I've been able to find on "primative architecture" of any kind. I
 >would highly
 >       recommend it to anyone interested in such things. I thoroughly agree
 >with Sarah's
 >       sentiments. There used to be a balance between man and nature. When 
 >I
 >look at what
 >       the world has become and the world that the native Americans thrived
 >in, their world
 >       looks quite utopian by comparison. It was only when man put himself
 >above nature
 >       (rather than a humble piece within nature) that the slow but steady
 >march toward this
 >       mess that we have now began. You could blame it on the rise of the
 >Europeans(of which I'm decended)
 >       but it really goes back to the birth of the the Judao-Christian
 >religions. There was
 >       a time when my ancestors in Europe lived much like the native
 >Americans. Yes, like it or not,
 >       religion and science are both equally to blame for the dead end road
 >we find ourselves racing down.
 >       The Power of Myth by Joseph Campbell is another great book I would
 >recommend.
 >
 >       -----Original Message-----
 >       From: sarah kercheval [<A HREF="mailto:hi_eagle at hotmail.com">mailto:hi_eagle at hotmail.com</A>]
 >       Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 8:15 AM
 >       To: coblist at deatech.com
 >       Subject: Cob: Mud Hut
 >
 >
 >
 >       Yes, I agree, just call it what it is, and be proud!
 >       Check out a really great book called Native American Architecture, 
 >the
 >next
 >       time you're at the library.  It is a great resource of natural
 >buildings
 >       that populated our landscape not too long ago.  We are looking to
 >pruchase
 >       this book in the future to reinforce our proof that what you live in
 >is not
 >       as important as HOW you live, ie, safe healthy, eco concious living
 >       structures.
 >       The proof positive that these structures are superior, is in the 
 >fact
 >that
 >       they no longer can be seen standing in most places.  They are 
 >gentler
 >and
 >       kinder to the earth in that they go back to it when their time is
 >over.
 >       This is in itself natural.
 >       Sarah
 >
 >
 >
 >       >From: "neana" <neana at terraworld.net>
 >       >Reply-To: "neana" <neana at terraworld.net>
 >       >To: coblist at deatech.com
 >       >Subject: RE: Cob: adobe/cob Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:20:36 -0600
 >       >
 >       >Everytime I mention these concepts to someone who is not 'into
 >natural
 >       >building', they cut across all of our carefully worded definitions
 >and
 >       >exclaim, "Are you REALLY going to build a MUD HUT?".  Since I have
 >planned
 >       >an amalgamation(sp?) of methods from the beginning, I have quit
 >fighting
 >       >and just answer, "Yep.  Got a problem with that?".
 >       >
 >       >;)
 >       >Neana
 >       >PS: Very punny, Matt!
 >
 >
 >
 >       Custom Waldorf Dolls available for you or a special little friend:
 >       <A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/sk/clothdiaperlove/dolls2.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www.angelfire.com/sk/clothdiaperlove/dolls2.html</A>
 >
 >       _________________________________________________________________
 >       MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*.
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 >
 >
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 >Version: 6.0.377 / Virus Database: 211 - Release Date: 7/15/2002

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