Cob: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: INSULATION FACTS]]

[Sojourner]

For the list again, came to me by accident from H. Wayne.

Here ya go.

Holly ;-D

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Fwd: INSULATION FACTS]
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2099 17:04:23 -0500
From: "H. Wayne" <hcrowbird at lawtonnet.net>
To: "Sojourner" <sojournr at missouri.org>

    Good points.  Trying to make heads or tails of this insulation issue
is
a bit of a job.  Fiber glass is not always a good solution.  Solar,
mass,
thermal mass, dead air space, and various fillers (paper included) do
not
always seem to hold promises made with given R-values.  I am beginning
to
think this R-value stuff was really a bunch of wallawalla intended to
make
some money for a few manufactures of expensive insulation materials.
    The bottom line is, if you can make heat or cool air, and hold it in
the
structure for at least 6 hours without thermal effects transferring from
the
outside, you are doing great.  Most insulation's seem to have problems
holding, or preventing thermal energy transfer.  There are so many
things
that can defeat an insulation system that might work one place, but not
in
another.  Then there are the fire, safety, and other considerations.
    Most of the loss of thermal degrees (generated by a heat or cooling
source) normally result from moving air.  Some occurs from thermal inter
reaction from building materials, like stone, wood, metal, glass, and
etc..
Some materials allow thermal energy to transfer to the outside, some
offer
resistance, but none seem to stop it completely.  The only one that
offers
the highest degree of resistance to thermal energy transfer is dead air
space.
    Dead air space has it's limitations and keeping it dead air almost
always ends up as pollution of some kind.  It is the old stale air
issue.
Some really nasty germs and stuff like stale air, so it can become a
health
problem over time.  It is also difficult to get moisture out of stale
air
since the moisture can not move out.  So what is a guy to do?  The best
thing to do is talk with folks in your area that have found a system
that
works.
    In time, you will know if the system will work for you, and if you
can
afford it.  There is no magic bullet for all that I know of and so say
many
books on the subject of insulation.  I myself think the foam systems
hold
great promise, but plastic allows thermal degree or energy movement. 
The
foaming of the plastics helps, but it does not stop the process as well
as
many salesmen might lead you to believe.  Then there is the issue of the
source of those plastics, oil.  Well that is enough for now.  Hope this
has
been some help.
    Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: Sojourner <sojournr at missouri.org>
To: coblist <coblist at deatech.com>
Date: Saturday, July 17, 1999 4:28 PM
Subject: Cob: [Fwd: INSULATION FACTS]


>*sigh*  Meant for the list again.
>
>-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: INSULATION FACTS
>Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 17:09:03 EDT
>From: DoNegard at aol.com
>To: sojournr at missouri.org
>
>Hello
>I have waited and waited for these opinions and these limited personal
>experiences to drive someone else up the wall.
>
>I want to see some factual information appear shortly and regularly on
>this
>list:
>
>1. A list of the insulation quality of many different materials,
>including
>fiberglass and shredded newspapers.
>2. A clear simple explanation of how R-Value is determined (in the
>laboratory
>and in the field, if possible).
>3. Does R-value as standardly tested, really the same as comfort level.
>I
>have heard the numbers for earth for a while, and I am not yet convinced
>that
>all materials that give the same R-value, will also give the same
>comfort.
>
>One thing I know for sure about interior house walls: if they are very
>cold
>to touch in the winter, the room is going to feel "too cool".  I have
>seven
>inches of fiberglass in my walls, and a foot in the ceilings.  I now pay
>$80
>per month for natural gas to heat this super-insulated 1060 square foot
>house
>in the coldest (Mpls, MN) months.  Twenty years ago, when this house was
>380
>square feet with a layer of brittle tarpaper for "insulation", and
>fifty-year-old windows, it cost $80 a month to heat it.  These are some
>of
>the raw numbers; I still need to know gas price earlier, and the
>degree-days
>over the years, and the seasonal heat bills.  Maybe when I get settled
>in Hot
>Springs, SD, I will figure it all out, as I am interested in natural,
>comfortable, form-follows-function, cheap, interesting housing.
>Don (still in Mpls, MN)
>