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Cob: Re: RE: Posts embedded in cobShawn Honeychurch ironfire at cyberlink.bc.caWed Nov 1 10:39:40 CST 2000
RE: Posts embedded in cobHi Will Thank you so much for your suggestions. You said you were building in BC interior. Just curious if you were anywhere near us. We're in the Columbia Valley. As for foundations, do you think in the semi-arid region where we are that we would near such a high one? I was hoping to get away with a one foot above ground level (and 3 feet below) foundation so that the house could be low to the ground for easy access. I was thinking of putting plastic (ug) ontop of a footing running the perimeter of the house and placing the posts and cob wall on that. But I worry that this means the wall won't be breathing on its bottom edge and moisture could condense there. Then again, it is very dry out here, so maybe that wouldn't be a problem. What do you think? Great idea with the pegs and stucco wire. That makes alot of sense to me. I'm so glad to have some input into these design problems and be able to address them BEFORE we begin building! Thanks! Robynn ----- Original Message ----- From: Firstbrook, Will To: 'Shawn Honeychurch' ; coblist at deatech.com Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 6:28 PM Subject: Cob: RE: Posts embedded in cob Hi Robynn, The answer to your questions are "it depends" on the details. I helped build in a cob workshop a cob structure that was post & beamed code approved. Although the posts are visible on the outside. If interested you can checkout the following pictures on my website http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/7148/cobpics.html The 3rd & 4th picture from the end. Or specifically: http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/7148/ma4.jpg & http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/7148/ma3.jpg. You can check out http://www.life.ca/nl/74/straw.html for more details about straw-clay. It is good to have nails or pegs in the posts to key-in the wall (regardless if it is cob, straw-clay or strawbale). Yes you can cob over the posts. Although if it is not a thick layer you might want to cover the wood with tar paper and some screening material to minimize cracking as the wood can dry out the cob or plaster too fast compared to the rest of the wall. You can use galvanized stucco wire screening on both sides of the will prior to cobbing or plastering the wall. This will strengthen the wall and reduce any chance of the wall falling over. Any bug problem can be addressed by the finishing plasters. Cob, Straw-clay & strawbale all have one common weakness water/moisture. This must be addressed by the foundation design and materials and sufficient roof overhangs. The stories you have heard about strawbale failures are all related to excess moisture, water getting into the wall and not getting out fast enough, rot & insects occur when there is 20% or more moisture in the wall, measured by weight. I am currently building a modified post & beam strawbale house in the BC interior. It lived through 2 winters with raw bales exposed inside and out. Our family of five lived in it through last winter there is no rot & no bugs. After driving rain I have checked the bales, they are dry as I have sufficient overhang. It all depends on the details. I have a metal roof and a large foundation, The bales are actually 5 feet off the ground and lifted 2" off the floor so any plumbing water leak wont touch the bales. I am using a sand, lime, clay, straw plaster to allow the bales to breathe. Trapped water is the cause of most rot. Regards, Will -----Original Message----- From: Shawn Honeychurch [mailto:ironfire at cyberlink.bc.ca] Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2000 4:03 AM To: Firstbrook, Will; coblist at deatech.com Subject: Re: Posts embedded in cob Hi Will Thanks for your thoughts. We really want to go with the post and beam design, because it will be easier for us to get a building permit. With your staw-clay idea, how dense would you pack it into the forms, do you think? And could we still cob over the posts? Would cob on a straight straw-clay be any stronger than a straight cob wall? I worry about it wanting to fall over, being lighter weight and all. The idea of building faster and improved insulation value with this method is, of course, appealing, but do you think there is a greater risk of having bug problems in a straw-clay wall than a cob wall? I am not inclined to building with straw bales as I have heard too many stories of problems with bugs and rot. Am I being paranoid as we live in a semi-arid climate here? Thanks for your input. Robynn -------------- next part -------------- <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE>RE: Posts embedded in cob</TITLE> <META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type> <META content="MSHTML 5.00.3018.900" name=GENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Will</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thank you so much for your suggestions. You said you were building in BC interior. Just curious if you were anywhere near us. We're in the Columbia Valley. As for foundations, do you think in the semi-arid region where we are that we would near such a high one? I was hoping to get away with a one foot above ground level (and 3 feet below) foundation so that the house could be low to the ground for easy access. I was thinking of putting plastic (ug) ontop of a footing running the perimeter of the house and placing the posts and cob wall on that. But I worry that this means the wall won't be breathing on its bottom edge and moisture could condense there. Then again, it is very dry out here, so maybe that wouldn't be a problem. What do you think? </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Great idea with the pegs and stucco wire. That makes alot of sense to me. I'm so glad to have some input into these design problems and be able to address them BEFORE we begin building! Thanks!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Robynn</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A href="mailto:wfirstb1 at wcb.bc.ca" title=wfirstb1 at wcb.bc.ca>Firstbrook, Will</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A href="mailto:ironfire at cyberlink.bc.ca" title=ironfire at cyberlink.bc.ca>'Shawn Honeychurch'</A> ; <A href="mailto:coblist at deatech.com" title=coblist at deatech.com>coblist at deatech.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 01, 2000 6:28 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Cob: RE: Posts embedded in cob</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=940300600-02112000><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2>Hi Robynn,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=940300600-02112000><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=940300600-02112000><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2>The answer to your questions are "it depends" on the details. I helped build in a cob workshop a cob structure that was post & beamed code approved. Although the posts are visible on the outside. If interested you can checkout the following pictures on my website </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=940300600-02112000><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=940300600-02112000><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><A href="http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/7148/cobpics.html">http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/7148/cobpics.html</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=940300600-02112000><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=940300600-02112000><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2>The 3rd & 4th picture from the end. Or specifically: <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/7148/ma4.jpg">http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/7148/ma4.jpg</A> &</FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=940300600-02112000><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><A href="http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/7148/ma3.jpg">http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/7148/ma3.jpg<SPAN class=940300600-02112000><FONT color=#800080 face=Arial size=2>.</A> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=940300600-02112000><FONT color=#800080 face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN></FONT><SPAN class=940300600-02112000><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=940300600-02112000><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2>You can check out <A href="http://www.life.ca/nl/74/straw.html">http://www.life.ca/nl/74/straw.html</A> for more details about straw-clay. It is good to have nails or pegs in the posts to key-in the wall (regardless if it is cob, straw-clay or strawbale). Yes you can cob over the posts. Although if it is not a thick layer you might want to cover the wood with tar paper and some screening material to minimize cracking as the wood can dry out the cob or plaster too fast compared to the rest of the wall. You can use galvanized stucco wire screening on both sides of the will prior to cobbing or plastering the wall. This will strengthen the wall and reduce any chance of the wall falling over. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=940300600-02112000><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=940300600-02112000><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2>Any bug problem can be addressed by the finishing plasters. Cob, Straw-clay & strawbale all have one common weakness water/moisture. This must be addressed by the foundation design and materials and sufficient roof overhangs. The stories you have heard about strawbale failures are all related to excess moisture, water getting into the wall and not getting out fast enough, rot & insects occur when there is 20% or more moisture in the wall, measured by weight. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=940300600-02112000><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=940300600-02112000><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2>I am currently building a modified post & beam strawbale house in the BC interior. It lived through 2 winters with raw bales exposed inside and out. Our family of five lived in it through last winter there is no rot & no bugs. After driving rain I have checked the bales, they are dry as I have sufficient overhang. It all depends on the details. I have a metal roof and a large foundation, The bales are actually 5 feet off the ground and lifted 2" off the floor so any plumbing water leak wont touch the bales. I am using a sand, lime, clay, straw plaster to allow the bales to breathe. Trapped water is the cause of most rot.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=940300600-02112000><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=940300600-02112000><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2>Regards,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=940300600-02112000><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2>Will</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Shawn Honeychurch [<A href="mailto:ironfire at cyberlink.bc.ca">mailto:ironfire at cyberlink.bc.ca</A>]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 01, 2000 4:03 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Firstbrook, Will; <A href="mailto:coblist at deatech.com">coblist at deatech.com</A><BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Posts embedded in cob<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Will</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks for your thoughts. We really want to go with the post and beam design, because it will be easier for us to get a building permit. With your staw-clay idea, how dense would you pack it into the forms, do you think? And could we still cob over the posts? Would cob on a straight straw-clay be any stronger than a straight cob wall? I worry about it wanting to fall over, being lighter weight and all. The idea of building faster and improved insulation value with this method is, of course, appealing, but do you think there is a greater risk of having bug problems in a straw-clay wall than a cob wall? </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am not inclined to building with straw bales as I have heard too many stories of problems with bugs and rot. Am I being paranoid as we live in a semi-arid climate here?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks for your input.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Robynn</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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