Cob: RE: I'm new and adequately poor

[Patrick Newberry]

mmm adequately poor, interesting phrase. 

(some replies that popped in my head as I read your email...)... sorry I
did not match them up. 

Yes Cob walls can "adequately" hold up a roof, my earth dome has a
ferro-cement cap(the wall part 
is earth, the top part of the dome / roof / is ferro-cement. E.G. Heavy.
So far holding strong. 

I've been working 3 years on my cob house, but only work weekends, as I
feel like and when family, 
natural and other disasters are not overwhelming me. 

Yes it could have been done a long time ago, if that is all I did. 

You don't need forms for cob. 

I've been told the R-value is about 1 per inch for cob. 

I was able to get a permit when I first started. 

They have since changed the laws, Not sure if I could get a permit now. 
(and they call that progress!)
I'd be too nervous to ask.

My other friends...in undisclosed locations.... build without permits
because they 
are off the grid and live in rural areas. 

Pat.
http://www.gnat.net/~goshawk

-----Original Message-----
From: Kate Kamper [mailto:spudnik2200 at yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 8:21 AM
To: coblist at deatech.com
Subject: Cob: I'm new and adequately poor


I'm currently in Austin, TX. I'm young and stupid with
no visible means of moving or building anything, but I
think I'd better do plenty of research before I do.
I've read over some of the archives here, but it's a
little much to go over all of it, and I think I have
some holes in my reading. Some of my questions might
best be answered by Canadians.
a) One of the archive letters said something about
immigrants (in Canada) not being able to buy timbers
outside of poplar. Is that really true? Can permanent
residents own better timbers, or own property?
b) Is cob really load-bearing enough to hold up a
roof? What are the beams used for? I saw a site that
had rebar beams on the floor, and some with beams
around doors and windows, but didn't see any that had
beam framing. If you were to use beams for framing,
would it decrease cobs walls load-bearing capacity, or
mightn't it cause the wall pieces to fall out of the
frame? (My idea was to have the frame's horizontal
beams of 1'X 1' thickness above and below, with
vertical beams (1'X 1')placed every four or five
feet(eight feet tall), with the rectangular bits in
between being cob. Could I make the beams less in
width if I retained the 1' depth? If so, how much can
I shear off?)
c) What would be the legal requirement for foundation
on a 1' deep wall? Is it 1' + footing? What is the
average depth to frost level in Ontario? Is most of
the soil the "soft clay, sandy loam or silt" variety?
Can you get a permit for cob? I saw a site of some guy
who's building had been approved in Canada, is it
fairly accepted yet? How safe is a buiding without a
foundation? How long would it last? Do barns or
garages in Ontario need foundations if they are made
of cob? Do you have do get permits for barns and
garages? Would you be allowed to use piers with
footings at some interval, with a narrow slab UNDER
THE WALLS only (Instead of foundation was or slabs)?
What is the average width of footings in Canada (I
assume 48" at 12" depth for loam soil)?
d) Would the R-value of cob be 12 at 1' thinkness?
Because that's not remotely acceptable (and I really
don't like straw bale at all, so don't go there). 
e) Why does it take four years to build a cob house?
If you can build approx. 6" per day, wouldn't it only
take a couple of months? (How long do you have to wait
before you can move up the forms and add more cob?)
f) Is it advisable to build the roof before the walls,
if the walls are not the (primary) load-bearing
element?
g) If you use beam supported cob for your basement
walls, should they be thicker than the cob walls above
the foundation? Would damp-proofing and extruded
styrene foam at 2" be enough to to insulate and keep
the basement dry? Is styrene foam considered a "bad
thing" by yous guys? I know there was some discussion
of straw sandwiched with cob (unacceptable because of
hay rot), but could you sandwich styrene foam in the
walls? What is the comparative R-value of concrete vs.
cob for basement construction? I want a root cellar,
so I don't mind a little basement cold and damp within
reason, but I would prefer the cold not come through
wood flooring of the first floor.
h) How do yous guys get away with building this stuff
without permits? Won't somebody notice me building or
ask questions when I try to sell my (totally
imaginary) property? 
I had thought cob would be the way to go, but the
foundation questions and R-value thing really bother
me. I could make a 1' pier and beam with fiberglass
insulation at R-value 33 for the same width but with
more price. Price sucks. 
Kate Kamper 

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