Cob: Cold Temps

[baco@pacinfo]

Fair enough Ocean!

Who am I?

Brian Bray
790 Larch St.
Eugene, OR 97405
541-683-2556 Home

I am not an engineer and have not constructed anything of cob. My interest
in the subject stems from the fact that I would like to build a special
space for my family.

What and who am I referring to in my earlier mention of structural issues? I
will not say, as it is not my intention to embarrass or confront anyone.

The specific problem that I saw was a lofted structure. The main support for
the loft area had less support on one end than I would have chosen to use.
It was also not tied in as well as it might have been and was missing a
gusset that it was notched for. Maybe it will hang there for a thousand
years, I don't know. My problem is that the builder does not know either and
almost makes a study of not talking engineering.

I see that I have touched a nerve, and that is really the subject here. Is
the almost anti-engineering aspect found in the natural building movement
cause for concern? Could it lead to injuries that could be avoided by
learning from the engineering experience of modern western construction?

I keep hearing about natural structures that are hundreds of years old, but
lets talk about the news stories of earthquakes in third world nations,
stories with video of a pile of rubble where a whole village stood, and
wailing mothers digging for the bodies of their families.

My opinion is that due diligence requires us to use whatever tools are
available to ensure safety.

Moreover, as this building movement gets wings, and I think that it is
getting wings, we will see even more backlash from the
construction-industrial complex. The more building that happens, the more
likelihood that there will be a structural failure that could have been
averted. After that, forces opposing alternative construction will have
something to hang their hardhats on.

I am not advocating regulation or making a claim that cob is inherently
unsafe, just asking for more information of a scientific nature to augment
the anecdotal.

Thank you- BB


-----Original Message-----
From: Ocean [mailto:ocean at peacemaking.org]
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 7:45 PM
To: baco at pacinfo
Cc: coblist at deatech.com
Subject: Re: Cob: Cold Temps

hey "BB"!

sorry, but anonymous entries don't seem to be in the spirit of this
listserv or of the cob building movement in general...

could you be more specific (and less anonymous) regarding:

1) what cob building you were referring to

2) what structural problems you perceived

3) who (gasp!) were the"acknowledged leaders" involved in creating the
aforementioned building

---and---

4) who you are

thanks!
in the spirit of more knowledge and less anonymous discussion/criticism
ocean liff-anderson

steward of ahimsa sanctuary (check out our newly updated website!!!!!)
http://www.peacemaking.org

owner/manager of intaba's kitchen (best food and coolest cob ambiance on
the west coast!)
http://www.intabas.com

btw:  as far as i know (and ianto evans of the cob cottage company will
confirm) there are no (absolutely none) scientific analyses available on
cob structures, since those of us who build with cob don't have the
riduculous amounts of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ or time to waste on such academic
ventures, besides we feel that 500++ years of real world experience in
cob building seems to be enough to convince us of the safety of earthen
architecture

hey, what are you afraid of???

---------------------------------
On Sunday, August 11, 2002, at 12:04 PM, baco at pacinfo wrote:

> I like the folksy flavor of all the thumbnail engineering and anecdotal
> evidence, but does anyone know of good source for science based
> analysis of
> the physical properties of cob? I would sure like to see a structural
> engineer/architect join some of these discussions.
>
> My sense is that many of us value off-grid approaches and organic
> approaches, but the simple fact is that sharing "I did it and nothing
> bad
> has happened so far" stories can lead to some dangerous situations. I
> looked
> at a cob structure and even my inexperienced and untrained eye quickly
> found
> a structural problem that could result in a death or injury, and that
> was a
> structure that acknowledged leaders in the field had a hand in creating.
>
> BB