Cob: RE: RE: RE: RE: small cob housing
Abe Connally
abe at abeconnally.com
Fri Jul 4 11:31:33 CDT 2003
pretty wet. Enough to pour in. But we live in a nice, dry climate, which
helps the process along.
Also, less clay, more sand, and a little portland cement goes a long way.
Abe
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-coblist at deatech.com [mailto:owner-coblist at deatech.com]On Behalf
Of Joe Skeesick
Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 1:58 AM
To: coblist at deatech.com
Subject: Cob: RE: RE: RE: small cob housing
Agreed. I understood her to mean cob that was wet enough to pump into forms.
Ive seen shuttering used on relatively dry mixes that dried quickly. Just
assuming youd have a bear of a time drying out that wet of a mix. What
consistency is the mix you are using?
J
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-coblist at deatech.com [mailto:owner-coblist at deatech.com]On Behalf
Of Abe Connally
Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 12:04 AM
To: coblist at deatech.com
Subject: Cob: RE: RE: small cob housing
Well,
A lot of this has to do with your climate and your mix. Our cob dries well
within a few days, and even in a form, in dries withina week or so. We add
a little portland cement to help the curing process, and that helps to
create a stronger mix when wet as well.
Abe
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-coblist at deatech.com [mailto:owner-coblist at deatech.com]On Behalf
Of Joe Skeesick
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 5:29 PM
To: coblist at deatech.com
Subject: Cob: RE: small cob housing
Some people have tried cement mixers to mix cob but the standard drum style
mixer just isnt a good tool for the job and you end up being able to mix
cob with your feet faster. A mortar mixer works much better but still ends
up with a wet mix and the straw has to be mixed in manually or it fouls the
blades. Basically what you need to do to mix large amount of cob is to
replicate the trodding action of foot mixing.
Traditionally cob was made in an animal lot over time, allowing animals cows
and or horses to trod over an area for months pressing the elements together
like kneading dough. We now try to replicate this with our own feet and a
tarp. It takes a lot of work to make relatively small batches. The best way
to mimic this process with machines is quite simply replacing horse hooves
with horsepower. This is often done with a tractor (hence called tractor
cob). Ive found personally that the very best small-scale cob mixing unit
is a bobcat. The bobcat because of its counter rotating wheel steering can
simply spin in place around the clay/sand/straw mix, churning it squishing
it together under the weight of the unit. The added benefit of the front end
loader on the bobcat to both scoop the mix back into a pile and then deliver
it within reach of folks working on an elevated wall section make it a great
tool to have. It also fits well in a tight building site. You can of course
use a standard tractor or even a truck but they both have drawbacks (the
truck in particular) The important aspect of mixing cob though is that the
individual elements have to be compressed together to get everything to bind
well. Tumble mixing will never get you a really well bonded mix. Save the
cement mixer for the lime plaster. It works great for that.
On the topic of pouring cob
well, its not really cob at that point. Cob
takes quite some time to dry out and if you had a mix that was wet enough to
pour and you trapped it inside forms Im afraid it would take months to dry
enough to support its own weight to allow the forms to be removed. Im
guessing here since Ive no experience at all in that area. When I discussed
building cob relatively quickly please note the relatively aspect. There
is still a drying time that is needed for each lift to be able to support
more cob above without schlumping J (basically collapsing under the weight
of new cob above it). Still, even with that drying time, the home I spoke of
built by Kevin McCabe took only 3 months to build the walls on a 3200
square foot home. The entire project took 15 months with him and 2 other
workers on the job. The home was built to a high level of finish as it was
originally built with immediate resale in mind. (he and his wife changed
their minds once it was built and moved in instead). That is the sort of
relative quickly construction I was referring to.
Best of luck with your project however you decide to build it.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-coblist at deatech.com [mailto:owner-coblist at deatech.com]On Behalf
Of Mary Hooper
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 10:15 PM
To: coblist at deatech.com
Subject: Cob: small cob housing
Now I'm going to try to send this message to the list instead of just the
one person who brought it up!!!
snip snip snip:::
Cob buildings can be large, they can be made with large machinery and
theycan be made relatively quickly. However, it is also a human scale
technologythat can be made almost completely by hand with simple tools and
.... ::end snip
Now, there's a thought I had not had.... using large machinery.... has
anyone used a cement mixer instead of feet to mix the mud????
I imagine a big truck size mixer and the construction guy saying "You want
me to mix WHAT in it?" and the forms people saying "You want to me to pour
WHAT in my forms?"
Anyone have any wisdom to impart for either sitution? Would a large poured
wall dry without cracking? Would those of us who have tricky knees and
reduced energy levels benefit from thinking "outside the box" on this? Not
to go fully industrial strength, but how could we utilize modern equipment
to make the job easier on our old joints and/or speed up the work?
Mary in NC
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<DIV><SPAN class=860383016-04072003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>pretty
wet. Enough to pour in. But we live in a nice, dry climate, which
helps the process along.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=860383016-04072003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=860383016-04072003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Also,
less clay, more sand, and a little portland cement goes a long
way.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=860383016-04072003><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><BR>Abe</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> owner-coblist at deatech.com
[mailto:owner-coblist at deatech.com]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Joe
Skeesick<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 04, 2003 1:58 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
coblist at deatech.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Cob: RE: RE: RE: small cob
housing<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle17><FONT face=Arial color=#993366
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Agreed.
I understood her to mean cob that was wet enough to pump into forms. Ive seen
shuttering used on relatively dry mixes that dried quickly. Just assuming youd
have a bear of a time drying out that wet of a mix. What consistency is the mix
you are using?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle17><FONT face=Arial color=#993366
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle17><FONT face=Arial color=#993366
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle17><FONT face=Arial color=#993366
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">J<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
owner-coblist at deatech.com [mailto:owner-coblist at deatech.com]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Abe Connally<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, July 04, 2003 12:04
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
coblist at deatech.com<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>
Cob: RE: RE: small cob housing</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=blue
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Well,</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=blue
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">A lot of
this has to do with your climate and your mix. Our cob dries well within a
few days, and even in a form, in dries withina week or so. We add a little
portland cement to help the curing process, and that helps to create a stronger
mix when wet as well.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial color=blue
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Abe</SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in"><FONT
face=Tahoma color=black size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
owner-coblist at deatech.com [mailto:owner-coblist at deatech.com]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Joe Skeesick<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, July 03, 2003 5:29
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
coblist at deatech.com<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>
Cob: RE: small cob housing</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=EmailStyle16><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Some
people have tried cement mixers to mix cob but the standard drum style mixer
just isnt a good tool for the job and you end up being able to mix cob with
your feet faster. A mortar mixer works much better but still ends up with a
wet mix and the straw has to be mixed in manually or it fouls the blades.
Basically what you need to do to mix large amount of cob is to replicate the
trodding action of foot mixing.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=EmailStyle16><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=EmailStyle16><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Traditionally
cob was made in an animal lot over time, allowing animals cows and or horses to
trod over an area for months pressing the elements together like kneading dough.
We now try to replicate this with our own feet and a tarp. It takes a lot of
work to make relatively small batches. The best way to mimic this process with
machines is quite simply replacing horse hooves with horsepower. This is often
done with a tractor (hence called tractor cob). Ive found personally that the
very best small-scale cob mixing unit is a bobcat. The bobcat because of its
counter rotating wheel steering can simply spin in place around the
clay/sand/straw mix, churning it squishing it together under the weight of the
unit. The added benefit of the front end loader on the bobcat to both scoop the
mix back into a pile and then deliver it within reach of folks working on an
elevated wall section make it a great tool to have. It also fits well in a tight
building site. You can of course use a standard tractor or even a truck but they
both have drawbacks (the truck in particular) The important aspect of mixing cob
though is that the individual elements have to be compressed together to get
everything to bind well. Tumble mixing will never get you a really well bonded
mix. Save the cement mixer for the lime plaster. It works great for
that.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=EmailStyle16><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=EmailStyle16><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">On the
topic of pouring cob
well, its not really cob at that point. Cob takes quite
some time to dry out and if you had a mix that was wet enough to pour and you
trapped it inside forms Im afraid it would take months to dry enough to support
its own weight to allow the forms to be removed. Im guessing here since Ive no
experience at all in that area. When I discussed building cob relatively
quickly please note the relatively aspect. There is still a drying time that
is needed for each lift to be able to support more cob above without
schlumping </SPAN></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=EmailStyle16><FONT face=Wingdings
color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Wingdings; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-char-type: symbol; mso-symbol-font-family: Wingdings"><SPAN
style="mso-char-type: symbol; mso-symbol-font-family: Wingdings">J</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=EmailStyle16><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">
(basically collapsing under the weight of new cob above it). Still, even with
that drying time, the home I spoke of built by Kevin McCabe took only 3 months
to build the walls on a 3200 square foot home. The entire project took 15 months
with him and 2 other workers on the job. The home was built to a high level of
finish as it was originally built with immediate resale in mind. (he and his
wife changed their minds once it was built and moved in instead). That is the
sort of relative quickly construction I was referring
to.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=EmailStyle16><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=EmailStyle16><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Best of
luck with your project however you decide to build it.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=EmailStyle16><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=EmailStyle16><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Joe<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=EmailStyle16><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=EmailStyle16><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=EmailStyle16><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=EmailStyle16><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=EmailStyle16><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><SPAN class=EmailStyle16><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face=Tahoma color=black
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original
Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
owner-coblist at deatech.com [mailto:owner-coblist at deatech.com]<B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Mary Hooper<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, July 03, 2003 10:15
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
coblist at deatech.com<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B>
Cob: small cob housing</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT
color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face=Arial color=black
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Now I'm
going to try to send this message to the list instead of just the one person who
brought it up!!! </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 1in"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">snip snip
snip:::<BR>Cob buildings can be large, they can be made with large machinery
and<BR>theycan be made relatively quickly. However, it is also a human
scale<BR>technologythat can be made almost completely by hand with simple tools
and<BR>.... ::end snip<BR><BR>Now, there's a thought I had not had.... using
large machinery.... has<BR>anyone used a cement mixer instead of feet to mix the
mud????<BR>I imagine a big truck size mixer and the construction guy saying "You
want<BR>me to mix WHAT in it?" and the forms people saying "You want to me to
pour<BR>WHAT in my forms?"<BR>Anyone have any wisdom to impart for either
sitution? Would a large poured<BR>wall dry without cracking? Would those of us
who have tricky knees and<BR>reduced energy levels benefit from thinking
"outside the box" on this? Not<BR>to go fully industrial strength, but how could
we utilize modern equipment<BR>to make the job easier on our old joints and/or
speed up the work?<BR>Mary in NC</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
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