Cob: Re: greenhouse start

[storm]

Hey Layth, the two walls, 6 inches (15cm) with a gap, probably like 4 inches (10cm). Those walls would have a taper too don't forget, like they might start at 8 inches and taper to 5. The gap would probably remain at 4 inches the whole way. I don't know why we don't envision putting straw in there. I'm just thinking of the Sante Fe style adobe practice of a thick wall with a gap-- this practice goes beyond Sante Fe to be sure, thinking of stone houses in New England-- probably comes from the Old World too... and I'm just thinking straw was probably not put in the split of these structures? This practice has been developed no doubt because of the need to stop the radical heat loss in a solid wall of stone or earth. Our thicknesses have to do with splitting up what would otherwise have been a solid wall, in our small greenhouse, say a wall that would have tapered from 14 inches at the bottom to 9 or 10 at the top. A thicker profile will always be a benefit, curvilinear not rectilinear-- for seismic protection, so... we weigh all these things, and make a good guess.

The split walls will need as many objects (wood?) tying them together as possible to create strength. We have this plan to have those sticks protrude out of the outside of the structure to hold drying racks for those plants and herbs that need to be dried. Those will be under a large roof overhang. Where we don't want or need the drying racks, the sticks tying the walls together will not stick out, but be concealed lie 'dead-men' logs in the wall. As far as putting straw in the crack, I don't see anything stopping a person from that, seems like a good idea. Hmm.. well, I guess I don't think I'll do it, I'm water paranoid and see straw in there as an attractant for water and retaining it somewhat, like a dessicant, something you don't want. But... just my own thoughts, they may not hold true. 

Windows? For an unattacthed greenhouse...the south wall will be a window-wall, probably will employ that plastic material everyone seems to use around here, translucent instead of clear. The sun is very intense up here at 8,000 ft. (2,500m?). No need for windows on any other walls, but for small peep holes, decorative windows, etc. My big concern for a cob greenhouse is the inherent problems with water and cob. We plan to have beds right up against the walls, but with a scrap sheet of EPDM tacked up onto the cob, keeping it dry. It would probably be better to have raised beds in the interior of the structure if one could afford that with space considerations. 

The important thing Layth. None of this is rocket science. Nor should it be. We take the info we have and make good guesses. We can tell ourselves the truth-- but I hesitate before being that open with for example, code officials. Some of those guys can handle the fluid cold truth, others really can't, be cautious! Steve
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Layth 
  To: coblist at deatech.com 
  Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 1:54 AM
  Subject: Cob: Re: greenhouse start


  I was woundering why are you having two thin (6") walls with space in between. Is it for insulation? If it is why are you not filling it with something like straw? How stable do you think it will be? How high will these walls be. How many windows on each wall? I am sorry to ask so many questions, but I was also thinking of building a cob greenhouse, but still did not act on my thought.

  Layth
  ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: storm 
    To: coblist at deatech.com 
    Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 7:06 PM
    Subject: Cob: greenhouse start


    We broke ground on a ramada/greenhouse recently. The greenhouse will be about 10'x18'  (3x5m) curvilinear with an extensive shaded courtyard (ramada?) connecting it to the woodshop. We dug a 'foundation' about 6 inches (15 cm) deep for the base of the walls and have all but finished the rock walls using cob for mortar, about two feet high and the cob will go up from there. Going to build a "hollow cob" wall, actually making two parallel walls about 6 inches thick (15cm) with a 2-4 inch (7 cm) space between. We're choosing this on our east, west and north walls instead of strawbales. Connecting the two often with sticks. Those sticks will protrude out in places to make shelf brackets for drying racks, shaded under the roof line. We are using a large cement mixer to see just how fast it can go. So far our expectations have been exceeded-- speed wise. Everyone's invited to come see! 275 Cottonwood St./ Crestone, Co. Steve and Anikke Storm 
-------------- next part --------------
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
<META content="MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hey Layth, the two walls, 6 inches (15cm) with a 
gap, probably like 4 inches (10cm). Those walls would have a taper too don't 
forget, like they might start at 8 inches and taper to 5. The gap would probably 
remain at 4 inches the whole way. I don't know why we don't envision putting 
straw in there. I'm just thinking of the Sante Fe style adobe practice of a 
thick wall with a gap-- this practice goes beyond Sante Fe to be sure, thinking 
of stone houses in New England-- probably comes from the Old World too... and 
I'm just thinking straw was probably not put in the split of these structures? 
This practice has been developed no doubt because of the need to stop the 
radical heat loss in a solid wall of stone or earth. Our thicknesses have to do 
with splitting up what would otherwise have been a solid wall, in our small 
greenhouse, say a wall that would have tapered from 14 inches at the bottom to 9 
or 10 at the top. A thicker profile will always be a benefit, curvilinear not 
rectilinear-- for seismic protection, so... we weigh all these things, and make 
a good guess.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The split walls will need as many objects (wood?) 
tying them together as possible to create strength. We have this plan to have 
those sticks protrude out of the outside of the structure to hold drying racks 
for those plants and herbs that need to be dried. Those will be under a large 
roof overhang. Where we don't want or need the drying racks, the sticks tying 
the walls together will not stick out, but be concealed lie 'dead-men' logs in 
the wall. As far as putting straw in the crack, I don't see anything stopping a 
person from that, seems like a good idea. Hmm.. well, I guess I don't think I'll 
do it, I'm water paranoid and see straw in there as an attractant for water and 
retaining it somewhat, like a dessicant, something you don't want. But... just 
my own thoughts, they may not hold true. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Windows? For an unattacthed greenhouse...the south 
wall will be a window-wall, probably will employ that plastic material everyone 
seems to use around here, translucent instead of clear. The sun is very intense 
up here at 8,000 ft. (2,500m?). No need for windows on any other walls, but for 
small peep holes, decorative windows, etc. My big concern for a cob greenhouse 
is the inherent problems with water and cob. We plan to have beds right up 
against the walls, but with a scrap sheet of EPDM tacked up onto the cob, 
keeping it dry. It would probably be better to have raised beds in the interior 
of the structure if one could afford that with space considerations. 
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The important thing Layth. None of this is rocket 
science. Nor should it be. We take the info we have and make good guesses. We 
can tell ourselves the truth-- but I hesitate before being that open with for 
example, code officials. Some of those guys can handle the fluid cold truth, 
others really can't, be cautious! Steve</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE 
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV 
  style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> 
  <A href="mailto:laythss at hotmail.com" title=laythss at hotmail.com>Layth</A> 
</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A href="mailto:coblist at deatech.com" 
  title=coblist at deatech.com>coblist at deatech.com</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 28, 2001 1:54 
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Cob: Re: greenhouse start</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I was woundering why are you having two thin (6") 
  walls with space in between. Is it for insulation? If it is why are you not 
  filling it with something like straw? How stable do you think it will be? How 
  high will these walls be. How many windows on each wall? I am sorry to ask so 
  many questions, but I was also thinking of building a cob greenhouse, but 
  still did not act on my thought.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Layth</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE 
  style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV 
    style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> 
    <A href="mailto:storm at ctelco.net" title=storm at ctelco.net>storm</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A 
    href="mailto:coblist at deatech.com" 
    title=coblist at deatech.com>coblist at deatech.com</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 11, 2001 7:06 
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Cob: greenhouse start</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We broke ground on a 
    ramada/greenhouse recently. The greenhouse will be about 10'x18'  
    (3x5m) curvilinear with an extensive shaded courtyard (ramada?) connecting 
    it to the woodshop. We dug a 'foundation' about 6 inches (15 cm) deep for 
    the base of the walls and have all but finished the rock walls using cob for 
    mortar, about two feet high and the cob will go up from there. Going to 
    build a "hollow cob" wall, actually making two parallel walls about 6 inches 
    thick (15cm) with a 2-4 inch (7 cm) space between. We're choosing this on 
    our east, west and north walls instead of strawbales. Connecting the two 
    often with sticks. Those sticks will protrude out in places to make shelf 
    brackets for drying racks, shaded under the roof line. We are using a large 
    cement mixer to see just how fast it can go. So far our expectations have 
    been exceeded-- speed wise. Everyone's invited to come see! 275 Cottonwood 
    St./ Crestone, Co. Steve and Anikke Storm 
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>