Cob: Formal Proposal

[Debra Freeman]

Pack and John,

I'd love to hear about the specs when you are done (or as you go along): It 
would help make the book learning I've been doing more concrete. Great idea 
for expanding to Plan B and finding an enthusiastic supporter in a state 
park: may I ask what state you're in? I, too, would like to get some 
hands-on building experience, and would be happy to trade some free labor 
for the process (no workshops taken yet).

All best,

Deb in NJ


>From: John Fordice <otherfish at home.com>
>Reply-To: John Fordice <otherfish at home.com>
>To: Pack McKibben <gakayaker at yahoo.com>
>CC: coblist at deatech.com
>Subject: Re: Cob: Formal Proposal
>Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 11:37:45 -0700
>
>Pack,
>I'm an architect in California. I've built a couple of cob structures in
>the size range you're considering & have done spreadsheet proposals for
>one which is almost finished & one which is waiting funding. I also have
>some strawbale experience.  What you are proposing is noble and a way
>for you to gain considerable experience.  It is also a means to get some
>natural building structures out there for the world to see and become
>aware of.  I could possibly assist you in collaboration with others who
>might sign-on with experience in the other areas you propose.
>
>The fire of your enthusiasm is wonderful, however I feel the need to say
>that in my perception and experience there is perhaps a problem with the
>basic premise.  Using the current "green" mainstream catch-word for
>doing things in an ecological way: i.e. "sustainable",  the concept of
>working in a world ( the culture we live in ) without just compensation,
>when that is the means of survival, is unfortunately on both personal
>and effectiveness levels not very "sustainable" .
>
>I've harped on this before on the coblist ( although it was a while ago
>).  It's all fine & well that those of us inclined to passion and love
>go diving off into the mud and creating beauty, but to do so in the
>concept of righteous poverty is also one of the things that helps keep
>natural building marginalized.  We're like gnats on an elephants ass.
>The world of "normal" mainstream build is clicking merrily along all
>around us, obliterating the landscape and doing it's level best to help
>pollute the planet & meanwhile we natural builders are off over here in
>some wee corner doing our thing & being less effective than we might.
>
>Your exciting proposal is going to be a bloody lot of work.  I've lost
>track of the number of time folks have come to me with fire in their
>eyes about building inexpensively with cob or strawbale, only to
>disappear when the reality of the devotional level of work needed as a
>trade off for meeting the magical $500 house goal really sinks in.  It
>is only the truly stubborn who can bull, or slip, or shimmy their way
>through it all and make it happen.  Perhaps you're that person.
>
>When people approach me now about cob projects, I tell them that I'd
>love to be involved, but I need to be paid.  After spending almost three
>years of volunteer weekends on a wonderful project in Berkeley, I've
>been there & done that.  The knowledge & hard earned skills are now in
>this brain & hands and can help make cob happen, but the value to the
>recipient must be acknowledged.  To quote a line from the film Jerry
>McGuire, " show me the money".   Terse, perverse and limiting it may be,
>and it scares away more that it encourages, but if I and others who
>choose to make cob our livelihood are to survive, this also needs to be.
>
>I've been trying for over five years now to drum up interest in
>developing a relevant building code for cob as a way of cutting the
>Gordian knot that is keeping cob bound to the margins.  It's a huge
>project that needs at least half a million dollars and two years minimum
>out of a life to make it happen, but it's a must.  Once cob and other
>natural building is opened to the mainstream, it will explode.  When
>folks see that they can build hassle free anywhere with the earth and do
>so in their own self interest, there will be no stopping it.  It will
>range from the horrible most ugly.........to the sublime, but it will
>happen and that's what truly matters.
>
>So I laud you and all of us the pursuit of the dream.  I'll be happy to
>join in as time, energy and funding allows.
>
>john fordice
>
>Pack McKibben wrote:
>
> > Pack McKibben
> > Northeast Georgia
> >
> > Subject: Proposal
> > I need help putting together a Formal Proposal for
> > design and construction of six Natural Built shelters
> > to be used by campers in a Campground setting.  One
> > Cob, Cordwood, Strawbale, Wattle & Daub, Clay Slip,
> > and Papercrete Shelter.  Each to be approximately 10’
> > x 10’ x 8’ in size, with roof, one door, and three
> > windows.  The proposal will also include labor and
> > materials.
> >
> > My Background:
> > I’ve become interested in alternative building within
> > the last year and a half.  I’ve taken one workshop
> > with Cob Cottage Company on basic cob construction.  I
> > plan on taking a cordwood construction workshop in the
> > spring.  I’ve been reading and doing research on the
> > internet about sustainable living, passive solar
> > design and other green/natural building techniques
> > that include cob, cordwood, clay slip, wattle and
> > daub, Papercrete, and earthship design.  I’d call
> > myself a neophyte.  All book learning and not much
> > hands on experience.  All this interest and research
> > because I’ve had a vision of finding land and building
> > a natural built home.  I’m still looking for the land.
> >  If and when I do find land,   I figured I could build
> > small shelters as a way to learn the craft, experiment
> >
> > with different techniques, and then, MAYBE:
> > 1).  Be able to rent them out as a way to make a
> > living, or
> > 2).  Have a place for natural build workshops, and/or
> > 3).  Be able to build a Campground/Natural
> > Build/Education Center
> >
> > Here’s my Problem:
> > After looking and pricing land I realized I have the
> > budget for a few acres but the project requires a lot
> > more.  Zoning is also a problem, but I wont go there
> > right now.  So I went to plan “B”.  Which is finding
> > someone to let me use their property to build my
> > natural built shelters (thanks for the idea Ianto).
> > To try to make a long story short, I came across a
> > Director of a local State Park who told me about their
> > pending expansion of their campground.  From six to
> > over three hundred acres!  I told him about my idea of
> > a community campground ? sustainable living concept
> > and he REALY liked the idea!  So much so that he wants
> > me to give him a formal proposal.  It needs to include
> > the type of shelter to be constructed, how long each
> > would take to be constructed, and an estimated cost of
> > materials.  I presume all this so he can figure a
> > cost/payback ratio.  I’m WAY over my head in this
> > situation.  I’ve NEVER done a proposal.  I feel I can
> > handle the community campground portion of the
> > proposal.  I need help with the shelter construction
> > details (labor and materials).
> >
> > Solution:
> > I need a BUNCH of help!  I do have passion and desire.
> >  And I’ve learned over the years that as long as you
> > have an open mind and a clear, focused goal, anything
> > is possible!  So here’s what I need (and I need it as
> > soon as possible) from all those who can help:
> > PROPOSALS: If anyone has done a proposal for a grant.
> > This type proposal would probably fit my need.  I know
> > some people have been building at schools as a project
> > for students to learn Natural building (etc.).  If a
> > proposal was required, I sure would like to see one.
> >
> > LABOR:  An idea of how long it takes to build a
> > shelter of Cob, Cordwood, Strawbale, Papercrete, ETC.
> > should be based on how long it takes two workers
> > To build a 10’x 10’ x 8’ shelter, with roof, one door
> > and three windows.
> >
> > MATERIALS:  Total materials list:  Timber, Lumber,
> > infill, tonnage, volume, etc.  Everything it takes to
> > build a Cob, Cordwood, etc. shelter/building based on
> > the same labor benchmarked building requirements.
> >
> > TOTAL COST:  I hope each shelter can be built for lass
> > than $ 500.00 for total labor and matericals.  What do
> > you think?  Can this be done?  Is this realistic?
> >
> > SPECIFICATIONS: Drawings of shelters/buildings, Views:
> > Front, Side, Top;
> > measurements, details.  I realize this info may be few
> > and far between.
> >
> > PICTURES: of any small shelters/buildings you’ve
> > built.  Cob, Cordwood, Strawbale, Papercrete, Wattle &
> > Daub, Clay Slip, ETC.
> > Any I use as examples for my proposal will be credited
> > to
> > the sender and/or builder.
> >
> > FORGOT:  Things I’ve left out!  If I leave it out it’s
> > because I don’t know it.  So tell me if there’s more I
> > need to include.
> >
> > GROUP:  Anyone who knows how to help me set up a
> > discussion group for this specific proposal.  I don’t
> > want to over tax on-going post that are more subject
> > oriented.  My plan is to post this ONE message on each
> > Cob, Cordwood, Strawbale, and Papercrete (and
> > any/others you think might be appropriate) Group/List
> > and ask for anyone interested in helping, to use
> > direct email to me, or to use the NEW proposal group
> > for future post (if I figure out how to set one up).
> >
> > *******         I’ll provide a URL to the group (in the near
> > future) so any interested persons, contributing
> > parties, and/or individuals who want to learn about
> > Natural Building, can read the in-progress proposal
> > *******
> >
> > Thanks for any help…
> >
> > I hope everyones help will not go for naught…
> >
> > =====
> > Pack McKibben
> > gakayaker at yahoo.com
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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> > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
> > http://personals.yahoo.com
>
>


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