Cob: Re: Re: Time and cost?

[chita jing]

    I wonder if anyone's used both systems? That would be interesting to
hear.

    Meanwhile, from simple reading and with more familiarity with normal
stick building -- I'd say no way is straw bale easier with respect to time
or cost. After reading all the lists and books and seeing various
residential projects for years, IMHO, cob is probably the best system for
anyone venturing out from stick built construction. It is also one of the
most affordable, all things considered. From what I can see in the Bee book
especially and watching (similar) adobe construction methods, cob has a low
landed (net) price as well as being easy to understand and do. Cob type
buildings have survived in Europe for hundreds of years (as have adobe). I'm
not sure at all about straw bale's longevity. They seem to be relying on the
shell material they slap over the bales.

    If waiting for cob to dry is a burden, why not make the first building
the shop/barn, where you can store furniture and materials and live out of a
car/trailer/tent for as long as it takes the main house to "cure" of
moisture? There are worse things than living out of a Butler or Steelmaster
building for a year. You can sell the building (and trailer) afterward.
IMHO, that's recycling without any need for apology.

    One of the major problems with "alternative" building systems is the
lack of experienced, cheap labor. Stick built construction has 5,000 books,
videos, classes, retired-after-40-years-building types running around. Many
alternative builders start selling a seminar within ten minutes of deciding
to build. A practise has arisen the last twenty years of putting students to
use in these buildings. They - like their mentors - can make mistakes simply
because the general level of experience is so low. Mistakes go so far as to
invade books - even books by learned physicists. All in all, mistakes take
time as well as money to overcome.

    For speed, I've seen nothing that beats buying a steel framed building
from a professional fabricator of same and filling in the surfaces. I think
it's feasible to put up a 1,000 square foot livable structure within a week.
Stick built construction can be even faster than that (per square foot).
Timber framed buildings could be as fast as steel but rarely are, if their
writings are typical of actual construction practice. Timber framing also
takes considerable skill to do well, compared to the high Forgiveness Index
in cob construction.

    Affordability is not trivial. Straw bale is claimed to cost "only" some
20% more than stick built. Affordability is a MAJOR issue with all building
systems, IMHO. Right off the bat, I can't think of a better system for
amateurs on a budget than cob. Buying all the supplies and tools, even
buying the videos and books and adding that to the budget as expenses
(rather than the capital items I believe they really are) -- so far, I think
cob is winning on all counts.

    Getting up a "livable" structure is a far cry from building a beautiful
structure. Let's not confuse "getting it up without any walls falling down"
with building a dream house. All the alternative systems need more design
attention, IMHO. That's a whole other dimension of building which isn't
addressed nearly enough. I've often thought artists should be recruited more
than artisans. It's one thing to build an air-free brick, it's another world
to make it pretty.

    Houses are also more than surfaces. People need to concern themselves
with plumbing, electricity, lighting,  trim, ventilation, moisture control,
etc. It's likely to take several installs to make putting in a new bath a
casual thing. I recall especially the last few "alternative sewer"
installations I saw. Ugh. Mistakes in sewage handling are really
devastating. Even worse than the owner-designed cabin I once toured where
everybody over about 5'6" hit their head on a beam at the top of the stairs.

    At this moment, I really think cob has the best overall approach and
tool set. It's easy to comprehend, has a long history of standing up to
weather (and that does count with me, I really dislike the idea of trying to
repair a falling down wreck in my old age) and the costs are also
competitive in most areas.



----- Original Message -----
From: "drhelp" <drhelp at shaw.ca>

> From what I've seen, strawbale would move faster and allow you to
accomplish
> your goals within a more reasonable time frame than cob. Is that the
opinion
> of others on the list? Diana
>
>