|
Rethink Your Life! Finance, health, lifestyle, environment, philosophy |
The Work of Art and The Art of Work Kiko Denzer on Art |
|
|
|
[Cob] What About African Grass for Straw in Cob Mix?Kyle & Ginger Holton kyleandginger at hotmail.comTue May 4 03:42:57 CDT 2004
Hello, I'm writing this email from Mocambique. I am planning on moving out into the bush and working with the rural people in the north of the country. I want to build a simple house with cob. Many of the people here obviously build earthen houses, but they do not use straw in their mud mix. I am wanting to expirement with cob here to see if it could be a good development project with housing that lasts longer and is stronger. Anyway, I am looking into the types of straw that I could use. The people grow rice, so maybe I could use rice straw. But many people use the "capim" or high grass for their straw roofs. This straw is not a hollow straw. It is basically a really tall grass. Any thoughts? Would this "capim" work with cob? Or is this the hay stuff I need to stay away from? Any wisdom and help would really help. Thanks Kyle -----Original Message----- From: coblist-bounces at deatech.com [mailto:coblist-bounces at deatech.com] On Behalf Of coblist-request at deatech.com Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2004 12:45 AM To: coblist at deatech.com Subject: Coblist Digest, Vol 2, Issue 33 Send Coblist mailing list submissions to coblist at deatech.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.deatech.com/mailman/listinfo/coblist or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to coblist-request at deatech.com You can reach the person managing the list at coblist-owner at deatech.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Coblist digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: (no subject) http://portland.indymedia.org/en/static/pdxradio.shtml (Joseph R Dupont) 2. Re: (no subject) (Jonathan Walther) 3. Re: cob for profit (Big Funky Chief) 4. Re: (no subject) (yew) 5. Re: (no subject) (Jonathan Walther) 6. Re: (no subject) (yew) 7. Re: (no subject) (Jonathan Walther) 8. I had a hard time looking you up.. please get a link with (Joseph R Dupont) 9. OFF TOPIC = OFF LIST:Capitalism, usury, bible, etc (Shannon C. Dealy) 10. cob for profit / building with one less income (The Pruett's) 11. Re: I had a hard time looking you up.. please get a link with (Shannon C. Dealy) 12. Re: I had a hard time looking you up.. please get a link with (Joseph R Dupont) 13. Re: OFF TOPIC = OFF LIST:Capitalism, usury, bible, etc (yew) 14. about greenhouses... (kate samson) 15. Building Codes and Testing (Charity Davis-Custer) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 00:01:43 -0500 From: Joseph R Dupont <joedupont at juno.com> Subject: Re: [Cob] (no subject) http://portland.indymedia.org/en/static/pdxradio.shtml To: lee.shultz at westrimcrafts.com Cc: coblist at deatech.com Message-ID: <20040403.000814.-1591443.83.joedupont at juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://portland.indymedia.org/en/static/pdxradio.shtml On Fri, 2 Apr 2004 20:44:39 -0800 "Lee Shultz" <lee.shultz at westrimcrafts.com> writes: > Hi, David. > > You know, you could build cob houses for people and give people > beautiful homes for much less (since the materials could be very > inexpensive), and you could still make a good profit. And hopefully > these people would not have to have a mortgage. (Though I think the > owners would be missing something special not to at least help in > the building process.) > > I remember a point made by Charles Long in his book, "How to Surive > Without a Salary:" most people work an average of 15 years just to > pay for a roof over their heads, whether they rent or own. > Considering that, can anyone afford not to take time off to build > for themselves? And I know many people who have done it, and I plan > on being one of them soon. > > Sorry, a 30 year mortgage, or any mortgage for that matter, really, > really, really, really sucks. If one has a job they love and also > makes enough money in that job to pay the mortgage, he or she will > probably not feel enslaved. But most people find themselves in > high-stress jobs they hate to pay the mortgage. I would think that > would feel a lot like endentured servitude. And especially when the > job is a 70-hour a week job. Our technology in the US is getting > better and better, but most people are working longer and longer > hours. And this reminds me of something Laurie Anderson said: "We > are in a race with speed." > > Well, the hell with that race. I would rather own my own life. > > Bye for now, > > Beverly > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Knowlton [mailto:pilot1ab80 at hotmail.com] > Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 12:19 PM > To: dealy at deatech.com; JILLPRUETT at peoplepc.com > Cc: coblist at deatech.com > Subject: Re: [Cob] (no subject) > > > hi, > > i angered some folks by suggesting that someone engineer a way to > make > sustainable building commercially profitable. my idea was that if > it's good > for > the planet, why not make money at it? money is good. (i'm > conservative) > > detractors felt i had tainted an idea central to cob - that being > that by > doing > it yourself you can be free of a 30 year mortgage, which i think > they viewed > as > being a nasty capitalist form of enslavement. > > more power to the folks that have time to do it themselves. more > power still > if > you can afford to eat while you build your own place. > > meanwhile - cob is still grass roots. if someone out there figures > out how > to make > mud houses commercially viable - please post. i'll buy stock > certificate > number 1. > > good building to you. david > > > >From: "Shannon C. Dealy" <dealy at deatech.com> > >Reply-To: dealy at deatech.com > >To: The Pruett's <JILLPRUETT at peoplepc.com> > >CC: Cob <coblist at deatech.com> > >Subject: Re: [Cob] (no subject) > >Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 11:30:50 -0800 (PST) > > > >On Fri, 2 Apr 2004, The Pruett's wrote: > > > > > What is the average cost per square foot (or length foot) of > cob? > > > Not including all the other house building needs there are, of > course. > > > A site I follow says it is $400/LF for adobe. Isn't that a lot? > > > > > > jill > > > >No meaningful average is possible. If you do it yourself (and > don't pay > >yourself), use only materials from the site, the cost is $0. If on > the > >other hand, you hire someone to do it, have all the materials > trucked in, > >then it depends on a whole lot of things (foot mixing or > mechanical > >mixing, do you hold a workshop to offset some of the costs, how > readily > >are materials available in your area, what does it cost for > trucking, > >etc.) > > > >That $400/LF for adobe is almost certainly for paying someone to do > it, > >but there are many factors not stated which need to be considered: > how > >tall is the wall (1 LF 8' tall is alot cheaper than 1 LF 16 feet > tall), > >does this include foundation, was it engineered for a heavy > earthquake > >zone, how far are the adobe blocks being trucked to get them to the > site, > >are they figuring just the wall costs or are they averaging in the > total > >cost of the building, etc. > > > >Shannon C. Dealy | DeaTech Research Inc. > >dealy at deatech.com | - Custom Software Development - > > | Embedded Systems, Real-time, Device > Drivers > >Phone: (800) 467-5820 | Networking, Scientific & Engineering > Applications > > or: (541) 929-4089 | www.deatech.com > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Coblist mailing list > >Coblist at deatech.com http://www.deatech.com/mailman/listinfo/coblist > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar - FREE! > http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Coblist mailing list > Coblist at deatech.com http://www.deatech.com/mailman/listinfo/coblist > > _______________________________________________ > Coblist mailing list > Coblist at deatech.com http://www.deatech.com/mailman/listinfo/coblist > > ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 22:47:26 -0800 From: Jonathan Walther <krooger at debian.org> Subject: Re: [Cob] (no subject) To: coblist at deatech.com Message-ID: <20040403064726.GB12388 at reactor-core.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 08:18:47PM +0000, David Knowlton wrote: >i angered some folks by suggesting that someone engineer a way to make >sustainable building commercially profitable. my idea was that if it's >good for the planet, why not make money at it? money is good. (i'm >conservative) > >detractors felt i had tainted an idea central to cob - that being that >by doing it yourself you can be free of a 30 year mortgage, which i >think they viewed as being a nasty capitalist form of enslavement. YHWH commands the death penalty on his people who lend on usury. By accepting such a loan, you become party to the persons crime, and so also liable to death. Usury means any charging of interest. There is nothing nasty about the free market, but rebelling against God always brings dire consequences. When the kinsman redeemer laws (concerning land ownership) start to get enforced again, things will be pretty interesting for a few years. Jonathan -- Eukleia: Jonathan Walther Address: 13685 Hilton Road, Surrey, BC V3R5J8 (Canada) Contact: 604-951-4142 (between 7am and 10pm, PST) Website: http://reactor-core.org ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 23:45:12 -0800 From: "Big Funky Chief" <scottrace at comcast.net> Subject: [Cob] Re: cob for profit To: <coblist at deatech.com> Message-ID: <001801c4194f$98fb3fd0$0100a8c0 at BFC1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" In regards to cob building for profit.... I'm thinking if anyone wanted to do something like this, it would be in their best interest to first help the cob community by working towards getting cob into the building codes......commercial ventures are best done legally, for your protection and the customer's. I also feel mortgages are a nasty capitalist form of enslavement. But that's probably for another list :) Scott > > hi, > > i angered some folks by suggesting that someone engineer a way to make > sustainable building commercially profitable. my idea was that if it's good > for > the planet, why not make money at it? money is good. (i'm > conservative) > > detractors felt i had tainted an idea central to cob - that being that > by doing it yourself you can be free of a 30 year mortgage, which i > think they viewed > as > being a nasty capitalist form of enslavement. > > more power to the folks that have time to do it themselves. more power still > if > you can afford to eat while you build your own place. > > meanwhile - cob is still grass roots. if someone out there figures out > how to make mud houses commercially viable - please post. i'll buy > stock certificate number 1. > > good building to you. david > > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 23:48:13 -0800 From: "yew" <yew at premier1.net> Subject: Re: [Cob] (no subject) To: <coblist at deatech.com> Message-ID: <004301c41950$05462e20$7100a8c0 at yewberry> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Jonathan Walther" >YHWH commands the death penalty on >his people who lend on usury. Unless <cough, cough> one is not Jewish or Christian (or maybe Muslim...I'm woefully unschooled in Islam). Now, I know I've been guilty of talking about composting toilets too much, but really...what does this have to do with cob? Brina ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 00:10:40 -0800 From: Jonathan Walther <krooger at debian.org> Subject: Re: [Cob] (no subject) To: coblist at deatech.com Message-ID: <20040403081040.GA13752 at reactor-core.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed On Fri, Apr 02, 2004 at 11:48:13PM -0800, yew wrote: >From: "Jonathan Walther" > >>YHWH commands the death penalty on >>his people who lend on usury. > >Unless <cough, cough> one is not Jewish or Christian (or maybe >Muslim...I'm woefully unschooled in Islam). > >Now, I know I've been guilty of talking about composting toilets too >much, but really...what does this have to do with cob? It has a lot to do with so-called "capitalism", which is a harmful and damaging concept, in that it equates soul-damning usury with the free exchange of goods and services for money. The whole point of cob is that it helps one get out of the vicious loop of usury. As soon as a person starts talking in terms of "capitalism" instead of "usury", they muddy the issue and obscure the benefits of cob. Jonathan -- Eukleia: Jonathan Walther Address: 13685 Hilton Road, Surrey, BC V3R5J8 (Canada) Contact: 604-951-4142 (between 7am and 10pm, PST) Website: http://reactor-core.org ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 00:26:17 -0800 From: "yew" <yew at premier1.net> Subject: Re: [Cob] (no subject) To: <coblist at deatech.com> Message-ID: <00af01c41955$562cd5f0$7100a8c0 at yewberry> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Jonathan Walther" >It has a lot to do with so-called "capitalism", which >is a harmful and damaging concept, in that it equates soul-damning >usury with the free exchange of goods and services for money. While I agree with you (I wish housing could be made more affordable for folks and that bureaucracy could be kept to a minimum), my point was that not everyone believes that capitalism is soul-damning (in the Biblical sense). I don't believe in damnation, personally. Brina ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 01:38:12 -0800 From: Jonathan Walther <krooger at debian.org> Subject: Re: [Cob] (no subject) To: coblist at deatech.com Message-ID: <20040403093812.GA14790 at reactor-core.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed On Sat, Apr 03, 2004 at 12:26:17AM -0800, yew wrote: >From: "Jonathan Walther" > >>It has a lot to do with so-called "capitalism", which >>is a harmful and damaging concept, in that it equates soul-damning >>usury with the free exchange of goods and services for money. > >While I agree with you (I wish housing could be made more affordable >for folks and that bureaucracy could be kept to a minimum), my point >was that not everyone believes that capitalism is soul-damning (in the >Biblical sense). I don't believe in damnation, personally. Now you are equating capitalism with usury. Capitalism is a false word, because it conflates two very different things. I am not opposed to "capitalism", because capitalism is a null concept. I am opposed to usury and exploitation. The Marxists invented the word "Capitalism" because they wanted to destroy Western society. They took the concept of usury (evil) and the concept of freedom to innovate and trade as one saw fit (good), and combined the two into one concept. Is it any wonder people argue endlessly about whether "Capitalism" is good or bad? It is a false concept. Jonathan -- Eukleia: Jonathan Walther Address: 13685 Hilton Road, Surrey, BC V3R5J8 (Canada) Contact: 604-951-4142 (between 7am and 10pm, PST) Website: http://reactor-core.org ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 08:22:53 -0500 From: Joseph R Dupont <joedupont at juno.com> Subject: [Cob] I had a hard time looking you up.. please get a link with To: spiralsageranch at yahoo.com Cc: Coblist at deatech.com Message-ID: <20040403.082623.-207767499.9.joedupont at juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Coblist at deatech.com http://www.deatech.com/mailman/listinfo/coblist ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 08:59:57 -0800 (PST) From: "Shannon C. Dealy" <dealy at deatech.com> Subject: [Cob] OFF TOPIC = OFF LIST:Capitalism, usury, bible, etc To: coblist at deatech.com Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404030855350.418-100000 at critter.deatech.com> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Lets keep it on topic, the list rules are very clear, subjects such as: Capitalism, usury, bible, etc, DO NOT BELONG on the coblist. If you want to have an argument, by all means do so, but keep it private and off the coblist, because when you involve the list, then I have to get involved and I have better things to do with my time. Shannon C. Dealy | DeaTech Research Inc. dealy at deatech.com | - Custom Software Development - | Embedded Systems, Real-time, Device Drivers Phone: (800) 467-5820 | Networking, Scientific & Engineering Applications or: (541) 929-4089 | www.deatech.com ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 08:58:41 -0800 From: "The Pruett's" <JILLPRUETT at peoplepc.com> Subject: [Cob] cob for profit / building with one less income To: "Cob" <coblist at deatech.com> Message-ID: <002501c4199c$ebd4c940$d52ce904 at default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" cob for profit: just like any other business you start, you won't really see a return for the first 2 years (so sayeth the statistics). So if you start to build for profit, you will have to be financially prepared to live without revenue for that period. Personally we came across the perfect opportunity to build our cob house. My spouse got laid off and can collect unemployment for 18 months at just over $1600 a month. We figure that pays him $10 an hour to build our house. I will work my three days a week (12 hour nursing shifts is full time). And we took a withdrawal from a retirement account, with the thinking that a mortgage-free house is a better investment anyway. There are ways to do it, even if it is on the weekends and you take 3 years to do it. In the long run, you will have all the rewards - right? jill ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 09:31:14 -0800 (PST) From: "Shannon C. Dealy" <dealy at deatech.com> Subject: Re: [Cob] I had a hard time looking you up.. please get a link with To: spiralsageranch at yahoo.com Cc: Coblist at deatech.com Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0404030924490.1142-100000 at critter.deatech.com> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Based on Joe Dupont's response, it appears you sent a message to the coblist intended for me (I run the list), since you aren't a list member, and the message wasn't directed to me personally, I did not see your original message. However the subject indicated you think I should get a link somewhere: "I had a hard time looking you up.. please get a link with" please let me know what you were requesting. No guarantees I will do it, but I do like to at least be aware of what issues people are having relative to the coblist. Thanks, Shannon C. Dealy | DeaTech Research Inc. dealy at deatech.com | - Custom Software Development - | Embedded Systems, Real-time, Device Drivers Phone: (800) 467-5820 | Networking, Scientific & Engineering Applications or: (541) 929-4089 | www.deatech.com ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 12:40:57 -0500 From: Joseph R Dupont <joedupont at juno.com> Subject: Re: [Cob] I had a hard time looking you up.. please get a link with To: dealy at deatech.com Cc: Coblist at deatech.com, spiralsageranch at yahoo.com Message-ID: <20040403.124105.-207767499.36.joedupont at juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks. ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 10:08:59 -0800 From: "yew" <yew at premier1.net> Subject: Re: [Cob] OFF TOPIC = OFF LIST:Capitalism, usury, bible, etc To: <coblist at deatech.com> Message-ID: <003a01c419a6$be7a5410$7100a8c0 at yewberry> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Shannon C. Dealy" >Lets keep it on topic, the list rules are very clear, subjects such as: >Capitalism, usury, bible, etc, DO NOT BELONG on the coblist. Thanks, Shannon. I'll cease and desist. ;) Brina ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 14:02:27 -0800 (PST) From: kate samson <daidalia66 at yahoo.com> Subject: [Cob] about greenhouses... To: coblist at deatech.com Message-ID: <20040403220227.40159.qmail at web41004.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I've never built with cob before and I am interested in attaching a cob greenhouse to the side of a (gasp!) manufactured home. My idea for the greenhouse is a simple cob framework and floor enclosing large pieces of unframed glass. Does anyone have any suggestions for me? Any advice would be great. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 14:44:32 -0800 (PST) From: Charity Davis-Custer <charitydavis at sbcglobal.net> Subject: [Cob] Building Codes and Testing To: coblist at deatech.com Message-ID: <20040403224432.79563.qmail at web80301.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello Cobbers, I was wondering if anyone out there has any experience with permitted cob buildings, specifically residential accessory structures. I found out yesterday that I will indeed have to pull permits for my building as my city has recently adopted the 2003 Michigan Residential Building Codes (as a sidenote I found out that these codes haven't been published yet, how can a city enforce codes that the citizens don't have access to? *sigh*). I've looked through the archives and it seems like this question is often asked and seldom answered. I'm happy for the people out there who are building in areas that have minimal codes or codes that are loosely enforced, but we can't move right now (though when we do we'll be looking for one of these building utopias). I also have a great deal of respect for those guerrilla builders who are out there breaking the rules and if our location were better (we live in the burbs on a corner lot with our backyard entirely exposed to the street) I would consider it. But the fact of the matter is I'm going to have to deal with the inspectors and I'd like your help. I've considered using slight subterfuge in my first attempt at getting a permit. I may list cob as stabilized earth (that is really what it is right?) on my materials list. I don't think this is going to fly but I've heard of an architect pulling it off. I've also considered appealing to the building inspector and attempting to enlist him as my ally. I'm thinking that if I overwhelm him with info and plead for help I may be able to pull it off. I'm assembling all the info I can find, drawing schematics, using graphs and charts, building a model, filming my fire and stress tests on cob bricks...you name it (in fact any suggestions would be helpful). I am having trouble finding any info on the following: foundation dead load for a 1 foot thick 8 feet high cob wall; exterior resistance to wind loads (on rounded and buttressed walls); what kind of live and dead loads can cob walls support (I know it varies depending on materials and design but I need to start from somewhere)...and any other numbers you've got. Are there any cob case studies out there? Any advice you can give? Please help, I'm desperate and extremely determined. Charity Davis-Custer ===== Freedom of conscience, of education, of speech, of assembly are among the very fundamentals of democracy and all of them would be nullified should freedom of the press ever be successfully challenged." Franklin D. Roosevelt www.natural.building.ontheb.us ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Coblist mailing list Coblist at deatech.com http://www.deatech.com/mailman/listinfo/coblist End of Coblist Digest, Vol 2, Issue 33 **************************************
|