[Cob] Re: "Code-approved" or not?

[ocean]

Hi Beverly,

Is it really "cob" that is code-approved in New Mexico, or "unfired 
clay masonry" - which the last time I checked was listed in the 2002 
UBC (Uniform Builders Code) to require "stabilization" - the addition 
of asbestos emulsion or portland cement, which as far as I'm concerned 
isn't "cob" anymore.   "Cement-soil" might be a better description, but 
not "cob"???

It might do us - all of us on the coblist - if references were cited 
for the supposedly "fully permitted" buildings in NM or Ashville, NC, 
or whereever...  all these citings could be available online, or maybe 
they could be posted...

Thanks,
Ocean

On Dec 20, 2006, at 12:52 PM, Lee Shultz wrote:

> Hi, Ocean,
>  
> There are cob buildings fully permitted in the US in New Mexico. If 
> you want to find out about it, talk to architect Kindra Welch at 
> www.claysandstraw.com. I am writing to you off list because I don't 
> want to talk for her, and she is a member of the list. Hopefully she 
> is not too busy to post a note about permitting.
>  
> I will be starting to build a cob house in Silver City, NM in the 
> spring, and I talked to her about it. She's working on a permitted 
> cob/adobe house in the Taos, NM area. She said she got the permit in 
> one week. According to her, New Mexico is the easiest state to get 
> permitted in because they already are coded for adobe. Technically cob 
> is adobe. You have to get an owner-builder permit, and get the blue 
> prints/plans signed off by an architect and engineer that work with 
> owner builders and adobe.
>  
> The rubble trench foundation was permitted along with it, of course, 
> but in NM you have to lay a thin layer of cement on top of it, to 
> grade. You also have to put either cement or wood on top of the cob 
> wall where the roof is attached.
>  
> Just as FYI.
>  
> Happy Holidays,
>  
> Beverly Shultz  
>
> From: coblist-bounces at deatech.com on behalf of ocean
> Sent: Tue 12/19/2006 11:07 AM
> To: coblist at deatech.com
> Subject: Re: [Cob] Engineering, $$$, etc
>
>
> An engineer is a professional with a government-issued license.  The
> license can be suspended for faulty engineering, etc.  This is why most
> engineers stay far away from cob and other alternative methods.  An
> engineer would never sign a waiver - after all, you are asking for them
> to certify with your local government that the building is safe and
> sound.  Then how, at the same time, could you ask them to sign an
> agreement that says "the building might fall down, but it's not my
> fault"?
>
> I think the $10,000 figure is probably accurate, give that an engineer
> will have to do a lot of research, beyond the standard process of
> looking up engineering numbers for conventional structures.  There's
> really no way around this issue:  if you're going to try to build under
> the scrutiny of your local building department, then it's going to cost
> a lot of money.  That's why Ianto Evans strongly recommends building
> small (under 200 square feet), having good relations with your
> neighbors (so they don't rat you out) and pretty much crossing your
> fingers that you would be discovered.  This is probably also why,
> despite many years of discussion about getting engineering for cob, I
> have still never heard of a single code-approved cob structure in the
> United States.
>
> On Dec 19, 2006, at 8:03 AM, Owen Morgan - cobbuildersforum.com wrote:
>
> > I think that is what my friend was trying to say really that he would
> > be legally responsible if something failed or did not pass correctly
> > for whatever reason. I would imagine if we signed an agreement
> > absolving them of responsability then would that cause the engineer 
> an
> > issue?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Owen Morgan - http://www.cobbuildersforum.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Amanda Peck [mailto:ap615 at hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 09:24:03 -0600
> > Subject: RE: [Cob] Permitting
> >
> > How much is an engineer considered at fault if a building with his 
> (or
> > her)
> > seal fails?
> >
> > If not much--or at all--then it shouldn't cost much, engineer can 
> say,
> > "oh,
> > I can just use so-and-so's figures for strength and so on, and not
> > worry if
> > the builders are going to cut corners and make a hash of it."
> >
> > If the engineer--or the people granting the permits--can be sued
> > big-time....
> > .................
> > Owen wrote:
> >
> > I had an interesting discussion with a person I've known for a few
> > years but
> > only just realized they were an Engineer. My county building
> > inspectors said
> > that it would not be a problem for me to build a structure such as
> > straw-bale/cob as long as I had an Engineer's seal. However, my 
> friend
> > is
> > telling me that it can cost upwards of $10,000. Does anyone have any
> > experiance with this our any helpful information?
> >
>
>
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